Obstruction or interference

[largeone59]

Helping the runner to his feet is DEFINITELY textbook coach's interference. No if's and's or but's.


My answer is still C, regardless of whether or not he was awarded home. Coach's interference = out, no matter how you slice it.

[Kaliix]

If the Big Popi has played the field, not even well, just played, he would have won the award hands down. He was definitely more clutch and more feared last season, even if A-Rod put up similar numbers.

But Ortiz also got to sit on the bench while A-Rod played the field every have inning. A-Rod played third very well. There is a huge difference between playing a full game 162 times a year and only having to bat three of four times a game.

Clutch hitting is great, but you gotta contribute on the other side. That's why no DH has won the MVP.

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by largeone59
Helping the runner to his feet is DEFINITELY textbook coach's interference. No if's and's or but's.


My answer is still C, regardless of whether or not he was awarded home. Coach's interference = out, no matter how you slice it.

Largeone,


Let me ask you another "what if." Let's say that R2 is obstructed right as he reaches the bag. The obstruction is severe enough(non-malicious)to cause the trip over the bag and subsequent fall. The base coach helps the runner to his feet, but does not push him toward home. No play is made on R2, and R2 simply returns to the third base bag. Would you still call R2 out for the coaches interference? He's gained no advantage.


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by BigUmp56

Largeone,


Let me ask you another "what if." Let's say that R2 is obstructed right as he reaches the bag. The obstruction is severe enough(non-malicious)to cause the trip over the bag and subsequent fall. The base coach helps the runner to his feet, but does not push him toward home. No play is made on R2, and R2 simply returns to the third base bag. Would you still call R2 out for the coaches interference? He's gained no advantage.


Tim.

The obstruction caused R2 to fall -- it didn't cause the coach to assist the runner. Call the out.

[BigUmp56]

O.K. Bob,

I can accept that. What should be done if R2 remains on the ground, and is played on and tagged before returning. If, you judge that third is his advance base on the obstructon?

Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Nov 30th, 2005 at 09:14 AM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
O.K. Bob,

I can accept that. What should be done if R2 remains on the ground, and is played on and tagged before returning. If, you judge that third is his advance base on the obstructon?

Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Nov 30th, 2005 at 09:14 AM]

The obstruction caused the fall. Nullify the effects of the obstruction -- that includes nullifying a tag out of the runner.

[largeone59]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
O.K. Bob,

I can accept that. What should be done if R2 remains on the ground, and is played on and tagged before returning. If, you judge that third is his advance base on the obstructon?

Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Nov 30th, 2005 at 09:14 AM]

Tim, When obstuction occurs, don't think of the award as "what base i'm going to protect him to" but rather think of how much the obstruction slowed him up or hindered his progress and base your award on that. If the bump caused the runner to fall down, then by all means protect him back to third since the obstruction caused him to be tagged out. If you felt he would have been tagged out anyways regardless if he was obstructed or not, then call him out.


But regarding your coach's int play: bob pretty much answered everything for me. When you call this, don't weigh whether or not they gained an advantage by the coach's assistance. If the coach moves or stops a runner in any way, it's coach's int.

[Carl Childress]

One of the Board members, who wishes to remain anonymous, is a friend of Kyle McNeely's and emailed him for his ruling, copy to me for posting.

Here's the play again:

The runner from second is advancing on a hit when he is obstructed by the third baseman. The runner then trips over the third base and, as he rises, is pushed toward home by the head coach. The umpire will rule:

A. The obstruction balances out the interference. Let the play stand.
B. Penalize the obstruction since it occurred first.
C. Call the runner out after playing action is over.
D. Call the runner out and kill play immediately.

Here are Kyle's thoughts:

... only in baseball, right!! We have a case of obstruction followed by interference.

Basically, as officials, we deal with these in the order that they occur. Frankly, it will always be dealt with as obstruction followed by interference since most interference immediately kills the ball, so no obstruction can occur after the interference.

The only issue here is that with the coach's interference, the out is declared immediately (casebook 3.2.2b). The ball is not dead immediately but killed after playing action is over.

So, the answer is really one and two. R2 is out for the interference. That is not due to the obstruction, the coach made the decision to help the runner regardless of how R2 fell. His interference cannot be excused by the obstruction. After playing action is over, the ball is dead, and we return runners to the bases they had at the time of the interference. In this case, the batter-runner would be awarded first base.

Happy Holidays.

Kyle

Turns out, that's pretty much what Roland's notes said.

[GarthB]

So, the short version is "C".

[DG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManInBlue
[B]

Originally posted by DG

No, I'm not, actually. Although I argue that the HR situation doesn't have enough similarities to this play to be used as comparison, in this case I will use it. The coach can pick a kid up that trips over a base while "being awarded" his four bases on a HR. That's legal, so I see the same type of situation unfolding in your hypothetical situation. Picking him up and helping him advance have been differentiated in the rules during the award.

So, no, I'm not kidding you. Please feel free to offer a rebuttal. You posted a hypothetical situation. I posted a question that could arise in the situation. I guess I could be playing the part of the Devil's Advocate here. But I see that the question has some relevence. Helping a runner to his feet HAS TO BE assiting the runner (JMHO), unless the ball is dead.

I mean no offense by the following statement, but...You seem to be a well versed official. You're responses that I've seen make valid points. I would hope that "Are you kidding me?" isn't the best reply to this that you have. I would expect more from someone like you. I would expect a thorough explaination of why you think this is such a ridiculous question. I'm sure I have just thoroughly pissed you off. So, I await the barrage that is coming.

In the HR case book play the ball was dead so there is no interference by the coach during a dead ball.

In subsequent cases the ball is live, and any time the coach at 3B helps a runner to his feet he is interfering, and an out should be recorded. Some posters here like to post erroneous postings just to get a rise

[GarthB]

In the HR case book play the ball was dead so there is no interference by the coach during a dead ball.

So, playing devil;s advocate: Batter hits the ball over the center field fence. He rounds first and misses the bag. The first base coach reaches out and grabs him and pulls him back to touch the bag.

Whatcha got?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by GarthB
In the HR case book play the ball was dead so there is no interference by the coach during a dead ball.

So, playing devil;s advocate: Batter hits the ball over the center field fence. He rounds first and misses the bag. The first base coach reaches out and grabs him and pulls him back to touch the bag.

Whatcha got?

I got Mark McGwire. No interference. Score the run. Break the record.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

I got Mark McGwire. No interference. Score the run. Break the record.

Awwwww...you spoiled it.

I'm just trying to make the best of a "snow day." Six inches fell last night and the buses were predicted to run more than three hours late. Instead of delaying things, they cancelled school.

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by GarthB
In the HR case book play the ball was dead so there is no interference by the coach during a dead ball.

So, playing devil;s advocate: Batter hits the ball over the center field fence. He rounds first and misses the bag. The first base coach reaches out and grabs him and pulls him back to touch the bag.

Whatcha got?

Good question Mr. Benham. I have coaches interference here. The base coach has attempted to deprive the defense's opportunity to appeal. I might also be sending the base coach to the parking lot for coming on the field.

I wondered back in 1999 when Big Mac hit his record breaking home run and missed first base if coaches interference might have been called had it not been such a big play.


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Darn you Carl! You beat me to the Big Mac analogy!

Tim.