Possible Obstruction

[harmbu]

Play: Bases loaded, two out. Ball gets by the catcher and the R3 breaks for home. He gets caught in a rundown between third and home. As he is headed back to third, F5 is about eight feet down the line in the baseline. R3 slides into F5 as he is attempting to catch the throw from F2. F5 falls onto R3 as the ball squirts loose. F5, still on top of R3, is reaching for the ball as R3 is attempting to free himself and get back to the base. F5 retrieves the ball while still on top of R3 and tags him.

What's the call?

[mick]

Originally posted by harmbu
Play: Bases loaded, two out. Ball gets by the catcher and the R3 breaks for home. He gets caught in a rundown between third and home. As he is headed back to third, F5 is about eight feet down the line in the baseline. R3 slides into F5 as he is attempting to catch the throw from F2. F5 falls onto R3 as the ball squirts loose. F5, still on top of R3, is reaching for the ball as R3 is attempting to free himself and get back to the base. F5 retrieves the ball while still on top of R3 and tags him.

What's the call?

harmbu,
We have to adjudge that play.
That's why we get the big buck$.
Was F5 intentionally holding R3?
Were they merely entangled?
Why did R3 slide so far from the bag... interference?
Take a guess and take the heat.
mick

[harmbu]

In the umpire's judgement, he was not intentionally holding him back.

I think he slid so far from the bag because the fielder was in his way and he has been taught not to run into a fielder. Would it have simply been obstruction if he had just bumped into the fielder instead of sliding?

[mick]

Originally posted by harmbu
In the umpire's judgement, he was not intentionally holding him back.

I think he slid so far from the bag because the fielder was in his way and he has been taught not to run into a fielder. Would it have simply been obstruction if he had just bumped into the fielder instead of sliding?

harmbu,
If R3 bumped the fielder trying to make the play, that sounds like interference.
Obstruction is a violation of the defense.
R3 could have run to the side of F5 and avoided the contact. The runner is allowed that option.
mick

[Bfair]

With the ball being thrown to F5 you probably do not have interference nor obstruction. It sounds like incidental contact. No malicious contact. The slide 8 ft. early can be mere stupidity (which we should never rule out). Sounds like runner and ball arrived near simultaneous. Now the ball comes loose.

If the fielder fails to get off the runner after the initial contact, I will likely call obstruction. My benefit of the doubt will likely go to the offense. I will not allow the defense to pin the runner down knowing they have help coming. I did not see this play, but I have seen many similar, and typically the defense lacks effort in trying to get off the fielder. Only you saw this play, but if there is no effort to get off the runner, call the obstruction. He has no right to lay on the fielder while attempting to retrieve the ball.
Many count on the ump not to have the guts to call it.

Just my opinion,

Steve

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by mick
If R3 bumped the fielder trying to make the play, that sounds like interference.
Obstruction is a violation of the defense.
R3 could have run to the side of F5 and avoided the contact. The runner is allowed that option.
mick [/B]

He is, but he is not forced to totally avoid a fielder on a THROWN ball. Indeed, in most leagues he cannot maliciously hit the fielder, but most of the time when the fielder is fielding a thrown ball and a runner contacts him it is nothing. (FED 8-4-2g, OBR 7.08b, etc.)

P-Sz

[mick]

Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski
He is, but he is not forced to totally avoid a fielder on a THROWN ball. Indeed, in most leagues he cannot maliciously hit the fielder, but most of the time when the fielder is fielding a thrown ball and a runner contacts him it is nothing. (FED 8-4-2g, OBR 7.08b, etc.)

P-Sz

P-Sz,
Yupper!
mick

[Gre144]

If this guy slid 8 feet from the bag couldn't he be called out because of committing an illegal slide as defined by 2-32-1 FED? Also, if interference were to be called, would the other runners return to the bag at the time of the interference or the time of the pitch? 8-4-2P says at the time of the pitch but 8.4.1 Situation C says at the time of the interference. I assume the latter would be true in the situation that you mentioned but I can't find it in the rule book. Can anyone give me a hand on this?

Thanks,

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Apr 9th, 2001 at 11:19 PM]

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by Gre144
If this guy slid 8 feet from the bag couldn't he be called out because of committing an illegal slide as defined by 2-32-1 FED?

I thought of that too, but IMO a illegal slide call would be very shaky here. The runner could easily have reached the bag if the fielder wasn't in his way.

Also, if interference were to be called, would the other runners return to the bag at the time of the interference or the time of the pitch? 8-4-2P says at the time of the pitch but 8.4.1 Situation C says at the time of the interference. I assume the latter would be true in the situation that you mentioned but I can't find it in the rule book. Can anyone give me a hand on this?

Since the ball is dead immediately on interference, runners shall return to the base they held at the time of interference, unless the rules specify time of pitch. I do not see the relevance of 8-4-2p here, and 8-4-2b PENALTY applies only to illegal slides.

P-Sz

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski


Since the ball is dead immediately on interference, runners shall return to the base they held at the time of interference, unless the rules specify time of pitch. I do not see the relevance of 8-4-2p here, and 8-4-2b PENALTY applies only to illegal slides.

P-Sz

Fellas, this is a thrown ball in a rundown. Unless you see a highly intentional act on behalf of the runner you should have an extremely difficult time even considering interference in this scenerio. You're on the wrong street with that thought

Just my opinion,

Steve

[Ax]

Why is there any question about what to do with this play? Runner has 3 choices here...give himself up, go down(Safety-non malicous contact) or try to avoid the tag without going out of the baseline established in the rundown.

This is a clear case of OBSTRUCTION not interference! You call obstruction at the time the obstruction occurs, which in this case is when the fielder "Sits" on the runner after the ball squirts loose and is retrived again and runner is tagged out.

Now where do you place the runner? Rulebook says the runner is entitled to the base in the umpires judgement he would have gotten to safely before or if the obstruction wouldnt have occured. BADA-BING... thrid base!

Ax

[Rich]

Type A obstruction requires the awarding of at least one base.

IF you call obstruction using OBR with a runner in a rundown between third and home, the runner must be awarded home.

In FED ball, all obstructions require the award of at least one base. The runner must be awarded home.

Rich

[BJ Moose]

Bzzz. GONG! Thank you for playing our game. Ax... you'll need a few correct posts to dig out of this hole. IF you call OBSTRUCTION on this play (shaky call, but it's YOUR call).. you MUST award home. It's type A in any rundown sitch.

Originally posted by Ax

This is a clear case of OBSTRUCTION not interference! Now where do you place the runner? Rulebook says the runner is entitled to the base in the umpires judgement he would have gotten to safely before or if the obstruction wouldnt have occured. BADA-BING... thrid base!
Ax