Pitching from the wind-up

[Coach C]

Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. The rule book states Duing delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. I take this to mean he may step back and then forward but not forward with his non-pivot foot and then forward. What is your opinion?

[mick]

Originally posted by Coach C
Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. The rule book states Duing delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. I take this to mean he may step back and then forward but not forward with his non-pivot foot and then forward. What is your opinion?

Coach,
Sounds to me that the pitcher took a signal, and then set up in a stretch without a pause.
I have the same interp as you... an illegal delivery.
And yes, I believe the pitcher may not step forward twice.
mick

Disclaimer: I just got off the hardcourt and haven't looked at my equipment yet.

If I understand the explanation it sounds like a tight wind-up motion. If he starts with his right foot on the rubber and his left behind it, he can then step forward with his non-pivot foot. Then he can turn his right foot and place it in front of the rubber and continue his wind-up. It is accepted practice for the pitcher to lift his pivot foot and place it either on top or in front of the rubber. Although technically illegal, it has been determined not to call it.

[umpyre007]

Originally posted by Coach C
Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. The rule book states Duing delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. I take this to mean he may step back and then forward but not forward with his non-pivot foot and then forward. What is your opinion?

JEA:

"Pitchers are not penalized for breaking contact with the rubber with their pivot foot if it is slight and considered to give the pitcher no advantage. This is often a necessary part of the pitcher's positioning his body to deliver the pitch. It is usually necessary to lift the pivot foot in order to turn the body into a power-generating position. This turning of the foot 90 degrees is known as the pivot (thus the pivot foot)."

[mick]

Originally posted by Coach C
Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. The rule book states Duing delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. I take this to mean he may step back and then forward but not forward with his non-pivot foot and then forward. What is your opinion?

Coach,
The pitcher:
Stepped left.
Pivoted Right.
Then what did he do? Pause at stretch or just go to the delivery? Walk off the field?
mick

[Coach C]

The pitcher is in the wind-up position. He starts his motion toward the plate with a step forward with his left foot going forward just in front of the rubber. The second move he does is place his right foot in front of the rbber in the normal position. He then lifts his stride leg in the normal manner. My question is: is it legal to step forward twice, once with his non pivot foot and then with his pivot foot. Most pitcher's step either sideways along the rubber or back with their non pivot foot before placing te pivot foot down in front of the rubber. I am seeing this more and more due to pitching coaches wanting the least amount of movement from their pitchers.

[mick]

Originally posted by Coach C
The pitcher is in the wind-up position. He starts his motion toward the plate with a step forward with his left foot going forward just in front of the rubber. The second move he does is place his right foot in front of the rbber in the normal position. He then lifts his stride leg in the normal manner. My question is: is it legal to step forward twice, once with his non pivot foot and then with his pivot foot. Most pitcher's step either sideways along the rubber or back with their non pivot foot before placing te pivot foot down in front of the rubber. I am seeing this more and more due to pitching coaches wanting the least amount of movement from their pitchers.

Coach,
The player stepped toward home without delivering a pitch.
That's a non-no.

By the way, about which level of ball are you writing?
mick

[Brent McLaren]

The pitcher has attained no advantage.

There is nothing to call, unless someone wants to split hairs, and then there can be tons of violations to call.

No call. Anything else isn't really baseball.

Brent

[Coach C]

This is high school baseball. I have had one umpire tell me this is illegal and others say its o.k. I just want to know the true answer. To me it's not legal because you could say he was moving from the wind-up position to the stretch position without first taking his pivot foot off the rubber.

[mick]

Originally posted by Brent McLaren
The pitcher has attained no advantage.

There is nothing to call, unless someone wants to split hairs, and then there can be tons of violations to call.

No call. Anything else isn't really baseball.

Brent

Brent,
Why would we practice, coach or allow such a double-step?
Is that a traditionally accepted practice?
mick

[Thane Yennie]

Anybody watch Rob Nen pitch for SF last night. Stretch position, comes set, on his delivery home he steps with the left foot sets it down , picks it up again and continues to home. So we have set, tap, continuation. What do we call this??

[mick]

Originally posted by Thane Yennie
Anybody watch Rob Nen pitch for SF last night. Stretch position, comes set, on his delivery home he steps with the left foot sets it down , picks it up again and continues to home. So we have set, tap, continuation. What do we call this??

Thane,
I have nothing because no body weight is put on that tap.
If there was weight, I think he would fall on his nose.
mick

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by Brent McLaren
The pitcher has attained no advantage.

This in and of itself is not a reason to avoid calling a balk/illegal pitch.

What I gather is this: Pitcher in windup with free foot behind rubber. He steps forward with FREE foot, planting it in front of rubber. He pivots the pivot foot normally, then steps forward again with the free foot and pitches.

The pitcher, with his free foot, may: step once forward or step once backward then once forward with the free foot in his pitching motion. He shall not otherwise lift either foot (FED 6-1-2). (Obviously we are going to ignore a slight lift of the pivot foot in its pivot.)

Thus, for FED in the situation originally presented, this is a balk/illegal pitch (6-1 PEN).

There is nothing to call, unless someone wants to split hairs, and then there can be tons of violations to call.

You cannot simply say the above when you don't want to enforce a specific rule. There are cases where we want to deviate from the strict letter of the law. This isn't one of them.

P-Sz

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by Thane Yennie
Anybody watch Rob Nen pitch for SF last night. Stretch position, comes set, on his delivery home he steps with the left foot sets it down , picks it up again and continues to home. So we have set, tap, continuation. What do we call this??

We are not ML umps, so we just complain and moan about it. I'll check it out next time I watch a Giants game.

P-Sz

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski
What I gather is this: Pitcher in windup with free foot behind rubber. He steps forward with FREE foot, planting it in front of rubber. He pivots the pivot foot normally, then steps forward again with the free foot and pitches.

The pitcher, with his free foot, may: step once forward or step once backward then once forward with the free foot in his pitching motion. He shall not otherwise lift either foot (FED 6-1-2). (Obviously we are going to ignore a slight lift of the pivot foot in its pivot.)

Thus, for FED in the situation originally presented, this is a balk/illegal pitch (6-1 PEN).

Do you call a balk on every pitcher who steps to the side during his windup?

As I read the post (and I might be reading it wrong), this particular pitcher had just exaggerated the sideways step so it's now a forward step. He probably should be taught differently, but I wouldn't call it a balk in my game.