Rich Ives article

[LDUB]

Since discussing Officiating.com articles is all the rage, I figured I would join in.

Here is a quote from Rich's article "A Drowned Rat".

"I wish I understood why it’s OK to bash a rat (Online) for not knowing the rules and refuse to answer his rule question ... Alas, many umpire-writers do not take the time. It’s "easier" to say: "Read the book, you moron." Then you face off in the next game with a coach who just might have learned the rule if he’d had the opportunity. You know who you are. You know what I mean.

Say what?

"a coach who just might have learned the rule if he’d had the opportunity."

Seroiously Rich, do I even have to say anything? If he had the opportunity? There is an activity called reading, and there is a book called a rule book. If you want to know what the books says you have to read it. It is not anyone on this board's fault that some rat did not know a rule.

You have been spending too much time over at eteamz with you daily questions from rats/fans about "Are the hands part of the bat?", "Can a runner steal on a foul tip?", or "Do runners have to tag up on an infield fly?".

Sure those questions get answered by the eteamz umpire crew. But who is the eteamz umpire crew? Many of them work only LL games. I am sure many of them are good LL umpires. But, they are not just umpires. Many of them are involved in their local LL in some way. They are on the BOD, they used to or currently coach, or something else. They are not "true" umpires. They are half umpire half rat. Their rat side wants to help out the coach, and their umpire side knows the answer to the rules question.

[kylejt]

Yikes! I've served on LL BoD's, coached, managed, etc, back in the day. I never knew that would exclude me from being a "true umpire".


Dang.

[Rich Ives]

You missed the point again Luke, so I'll try to keep it simple:

There is nothing in the rule book that indicates that there are additional interpretations involved and/or that there are resources that will help you underdstand the rules.

THEREFORE, telling someone to "go read the rule book" will NOT help them discover the additional resources.

[Tim C]

Squeak, squaek, squeak.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by Tim C
Squeak, squaek, squeak.

Tee

Your resume on the paid side says you're a Rules Instructor.

So instead of complaining about untrained umpires, put you time where your mouth is and go instruct them.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by LDUB

There is an activity called reading, and there is a book called a rule book. If you want to know what the books says you have to read it. It is not anyone on this board's fault that some rat did not know a rule.

There is NO Umpire worth his Weight that simply reads the rule-book. In order to be a competent umpire one needs supplemental materials to truly UNDERSTAND the rules.

Here's an Example.

Find the Terms "Relaxed" / Unrelaxed Action" in the rule-book.

Answer - You will not

The aforementioned terms are used and defined by authoritative sources to aid the umpire on appeal plays. When does the base have to be tagged as oppose to the player and when will we honor the appeal.

One cannot learn the various nuances of the appeal process by strictly reading the rule-book.

Then there is the concept of "last time by"

In addition with the exception of the FED / NCAA rule books, the OBR rule-book is poorly written / indexed and more often than not one has to go to several places to find the COMPLETE answer.

Here's a simple one that we as umpires take for granted.

Is the ball dead when B1 gets hit by the pitch?
If you go to rule 6 all it says is that the batter is awarded first base. It says nothing about the status of the ball.

You need to go to another rule reference namely rule 5 which tells one that the ball is dead when b1 gets hit by the pitch.

In addition, if you call ball using a variety of rule codes I don't see how one gets by without having Carl's BRD to aid the umpire in the various rule differences.

The OBR rule book is boring and difficult to read. There is no awards table or dead ball table ala FED. In addition not all authoritative materials are available to the public ala the JEA (hopefully one day it will).

If it's an OBR type question I DO NOT look it up in the OBR rule-book. I go to either the PBUC Manual, BRD / or Jaksa Roder's Rules of Professional baseball where I will find a COMPLETE Answer with Case Play analysis.

Pete Booth

[Tim C]

I couldn't possibly disagree MORE with what you posted.

Before "Internet Umpiring" there were never even discussions about the stuff you have listed.

Some umpires think that some of the concepts you are listing are nothing more than mental masturbation.

While I respect your opinions and your posts . . . but with this post you have hit the nail on the head, accidentially.

No one NEEDS JEA, or J/R or the BRD to umpire baseball.

We ("internet umpires") have made umpiring much more complicated than it needs to be.

I really don't care about relaxed/unrelaxed, Type "A" or Type "B" Obstruction, or even "last time by" . . .

Any umpire can work games by reading the rule book(s) -- we ("internet umpires") simply try to make brain surgery out of something that is very, very simple in nature.

I stand on Luke's side . . . BTW, I list myself as an "internet umpire."

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
You missed the point again Luke, so I'll try to keep it simple:

There is nothing in the rule book that indicates that there are additional interpretations involved and/or that there are resources that will help you underdstand the rules.

THEREFORE, telling someone to "go read the rule book" will NOT help them discover the additional resources.

Where have you been that these coaches are asking rule questions that can't be answered with a rule book?

I tried to find some coach questions on this site, but I go tired of looking. So I just went to eteamz, and there were lots.

Question 1: On the FED/NCAA board, a coach asks if the BR can overrun first after a walk.

Question 2: 3-2 count, check swing called a ball. By the time the PU gets help, the BR is on first. U1 reverses the call, and the coach want to know if this is legal or not.

Question 3: Someone asks if runners have to tag up on an uncaught infield fly.

Question 4: Someone asks if fan interference can be a one base award instead of the standard two bases.

Question 5: (This is a copy of the entire first post of one of the threads) "one of the pitchers in our babe ruth league has his hat falling off after nearly every pitch.is there a rule against this?it is a distraction to the batters. thanks"

Question 6: R1 & R2, batter squares to bunt, and is hit by the pitch. Everyone starts to move up, but the PU asks BU if batter attempted to hit the ball. BU calls a strike. Do R1 and R2 have to go back to their previous bases, or can they stay at second and third?

Question 7: (Another quote) "Bases loaded. Two outs. Ball is hit to third. Guy on third runs home. Third baseman throws the ball to second getting the third out at second After the third base runner hits home. Does the run home count? I say no. Friend says yes."

One does not need any extra resources to answer these questions. 99% of coach questions are simple questions which can be solved by having a basic rules knowledge.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
You missed the point again Luke, so I'll try to keep it simple:

There is nothing in the rule book that indicates that there are additional interpretations involved and/or that there are resources that will help you underdstand the rules.

THEREFORE, telling someone to "go read the rule book" will NOT help them discover the additional resources.

Mountains and molehills.

We should be so lucky that coaches actually look in a rule book whether they can find what they are looking for or not. It would be a hell of an improvement.

There is nothing in the US Constitution that includes all the various court interpreations either. Nevertheless, it is the best starting point for anyone who wants to know the constitutional "rules".

When a coach, (not during a game) asks me where he can find the interpretation I use for a ruling, I tell them. Not one has gotten overly upset because it wasn't in the rule book. Actually, I probably should be getting a commission from NABL. At least six coaches have bought the "Blue Book" after discussing interps with me.

[David B]

Originally posted by Tim C
I couldn't possibly disagree MORE with what you posted.

Before "Internet Umpiring" there were never even discussions about the stuff you have listed.

Some umpires think that some of the concepts you are listing are nothing more than mental masturbation.

While I respect your opinions and your posts . . . but with this post you have hit the nail on the head, accidentially.

No one NEEDS JEA, or J/R or the BRD to umpire baseball.

We ("internet umpires") have made umpiring much more complicated than it needs to be.

I really don't care about relaxed/unrelaxed, Type "A" or Type "B" Obstruction, or even "last time by" . . .

Any umpire can work games by reading the rule book(s) -- we ("internet umpires") simply try to make brain surgery out of something that is very, very simple in nature.

I stand on Luke's side . . . BTW, I list myself as an "internet umpire."

Completely correct. Umpiring is not rocket science.

The basic rules are the basis for nearly all of the rules that a coach needs to know - or ask about in a game.

I don't ever recall telling a coach "that's type A or type B obstruction" - simply that's obstruction.

Same with "last time by" - sounds like a drive-in or something and a coach would never understand. Simply tell him the runner is out or safe.

Sure it helps to understand the rules by reading all of the "other" books but the main one that I have used for years and years is still the NABL and that's the first book that I tell my umpires to get.

Then if they call in many different leagues I tell them go with the BRD.

But again, when dealing with coaches, its all out of the rule book - that way if they can find one they might read it. Usually they don't really want to know the rule, they just want the "advantage" in that game.

Thanks
David

[GarthB]

I don't mean to sound Rat-like here, I've gotten a few questions from coaches this season at the AAA Legion level that are not completely covered by the rule book.

The most recent was a discussion regarding the pitcher making a momentary adjustment of the ball in his glove with his free hand while in the wind-up. A coach wanted a balk for the pitcher assuming his postion and then removing his hand while on the rubber and not making pitch.

The phrase "momentary adjustment" appears nowhere in the rule book. It is in the NAPBL and on Evans' balk video and is well known by competent umpires, but the coach knew only the black and white of the rule.

Still, that's an improvement.

What I've discovered is that those coaches who have questions regarding interpretations not found in the rule book are few in number and among the more reasonable. They are not put off to learn that there are other sources.

The vast majority of coaches are still crying about rules that ARE addressed completely in the rule book and have never taken the time to read them.

[Rich Ives]

Because you have so much time and effort invested in learning the rules and their quirks, it is hard to mentally separate the parts that are actually in the book from the parts that are not. Also, at times, it can be difficult to string together the correct combination of rules to get to the correct answer. You really have to stop and think about it sometimes. Remember those case books? Why are they necessary if the answer is in the book?

Anyhow, without further ado:

These are common everyday situations, not esoteric ones.

1) Batter squares and bunts a pitch. The ball goes straight down, hits the plate, bounces up, and hits the batter on the arm while directly over the plate.

Out or Foul Ball?

What does the rule book say?

2) Pitcher from windup picks up his pivot foot, twists it, and places it parallel to and in contact with the rubber.

The rule book only says the pitcher may take one step back and one step forward with his free foot, so is the pivot foot move a balk, a nothing, or "Don't do that"?

No matter the answer, Where does the rule book say it?

3) Fielders other than the catcher are to be in fair territory "when the ball is put in play".

Once the umpire puts the ball in play, may they then move to foul territory or must they wait until the ball is a) hit; b) pitched; or c) other?

Where is it in the rule book?

4) On a rule book double, runners get two bases. We know it's from the time of the pitch, but where does it say it in the book?

5) Where does the book define the TOP?

6) A runner is out if he is hit by a batted ball before it passes a fielder. Where is "passes" defined? String theory or step and reach?

7) How often do you enforce 3.09? Why or why not?

8) How about the "three feet from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged" bit. Where does it say the runner makes his own baseline?

According to Roder's book title there's at least 92 more . . . .


p.s. From discussions I have read, I think you'll agree that calling the book strike zone will get you run out of town on a rail - with both managers helping.



p.p.s. Garth must not be feeling well as he offered a thought that might be somewhat in line with my thoughts.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives


p.p.s. Garth must not be feeling well as he offered a thought that might be somewhat in line with my thoughts.

No. I feel fine. When I speak of reality, unlike Rats, I include all parts, not just those that fit my preferences.

[Edited by GarthB on Jul 8th, 2005 at 04:00 PM]

[Tim C]

I sent Garth his new supply of meds.

[carldog]

I should just walk out to my garden and tend my tomatoes, but I just can't help myself: I 'm going to comment.

I sincerely appreciate that experienced, professional Umps help with questions, even simplistic questions, from volunteer Umps like me. Thank you, again. Mr. Ives, and many others, who have taken the time to answer some of my questions in the past. I appreciate the time and effort.

I understand that repeated, beginning level questions are tough to handle. I teach 7th grade science. "Hey Mr. Cramer, do we have to use a #2 pencil?" I simply ignore the question and turn my attention to the next customer...

Even volunteer Umps should read the rule book....I agree...but l'm a fairly bright guy....and it's just not that easy to understand the application of the rules. Even though I'm just a volunteer Ump, I want to be good and I want to be right. I guess if we all just read the rule book ... and the case book...we could turn off our computers now and go tend the tomatoes.

I have witnessed 'certified' , varsity Umps making ridiculous beginner-level mistakes....and a little time reading this discussion board would do them a lot of good.

Good Umpiring helps make Good Baseball. It is a great game, and it is in decline. Look at the participation numbers among our youngsters. Participation is down. I look at an Ump as the 'Conductor' of the orchestra...a 'Director' of the musical drama....a 'Lab Instructor' for today's experiment. Baseball needs more, better Umps who have a little perspective and a little competence...to help the game of Baseball.

This an other internet sites really do help. Guys like Rich who help beginner-level Umps help the game of baseball. We need to encourage new Umps. Are your responses on this site encouraging new Umps?

The entire eteamz/officiating.com thing is a total waste of time. Pee-pee contest.

Do you know that it is only July 8 and I already have tomatoes the size of tennis balls? (Way Upstate NY....near Lake Ontario)

Play Ball!