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"They should know the rules!" It's a bit naive to expect coaches, players, and fans to sit down and read the NFHS rules and discern the differences. This is especially true since NFHS rules are so proprietory. You can find OBR rules all over the place. It's proudly available on the internet. NFHS rules? [insert mysterious music] Not available. Hard to find. Cannot be readily checked. And then we wonder why people are not well-educated. Over the years, I've had unusual things happen in games (OBR games) and the next day, some fan, coach or somebody will come back to the park the next day and say, "Last night I checked that interference rule and it said ... blah, blah, blah," At least they checked! They saw something unusual, or something they didn't understand, they got curious, and they checked. Nothing like that could ever occur in a high school game. The mystery persists. David Emerling Memphis, TN [Edited by David Emerling on Mar 26th, 2005 at 01:15 PM] |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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Who cares how the runner makes an out? For example, the pitcher has a live ball and throws it to third, saying: "We're appealing that R2 missed that base." Would you deny that appeal because the third baseman is going to take the base? After all, he's the one who should make the appeal. Right? C'mon. The DH produces more exciting baseball than a pitcher's three whiffs and a trot to the bench. The game changes, my friend. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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R1 stealing, fly ball to left field. R1 misses second and starts to advance to third. F7 catches the ball. R1 turns and begins to return to first, he touches second, and is beats the appeal at first. Defense then appeal the initial miss of second by R1, and you rule safe. The next time you go back to that field, the coach says "remember that appeal play, I looke it up, and it is under 7.10. He missed the base while advancing. Why didn't you call him out?" You: "There is a concept called last time by and ..." Coach: "Well where can I find this in writing?" You: "Go on the internet and by the J/R or BRD (or whatever other book you can think of)" Well now we are right back to where we started. In order for someone to understand the rules, they have to go and buy some book. BRD cost $25 (or so) and J/R cost $40 (or so), while the FED rule book cost $6.75. Now which one of these is an average person more likely to buy? J/R for $40, or the Federation book for $6.75? |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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Good point, Luke. David Emerling Memphis, TN |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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The reason umpires say HS kids should know the Fed way of appealing is because the coach should. I don't care that Fed rules aren't available on the internet, they are available through the school they coach for. HS coaches are paid to do a job and should be expected to have a passing knowledge of the game they are paid to teach. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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The fact is that baseball is a age old sport that most people have familiarity with almost by osmosis. People have enough misconceptions regarding OBR rules, let alone a *******ization of those rules. Honestly now - wouldn't it just be simpler for EVERYBODY if FED rules were nothing more than OBR rules with a few additions? Just like USSSA! 1. reentry 2. courtesy runners 3. force play slide rule 4. malicious contact 5. equipment specifications 6. no tobacco That should just about do it! David Emerling Memphis, TN |
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A FED rule book (and case book) is sent to anybody who registers and can be readily purchased without registering. The FED rules are not mysterious, just because you can't download them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Expert Opinion
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That's what happens in basketball, and there are just as many rules differences between NBA, NCAA and FED |
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And, as you know Bob, the same thing happens in Football. FED is the default set of rules for youth play in those states that use FED. If I'm not mistaken, in parts of Oregon, Legion baseball uses FED rules as well. It was toyed with here, but no official move has been made yet.
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We had our first chance to try a pickoff from the windup in a USSSA league tournament yesterday. Prior to our first game I spoke with the plate ump outside the fence away from everybody. He knew about the rule and told me generally what he would look for regarding a balk. Very nice guy and helpful. Also called a great game. We didn't get a chance to try the pickoff from a windup in that game though.
In our second game we had different umps. At game time we were short one ump, so while we were waiting for the umps to show, I spoke with the one we had. He was unsure about the rule and told me he would have to call a balk. I politely mentioned the difference between OBR and FED in this particular case and he told me he would definitely read up on it when he got home. But for now, he would have to call a balk. Fair enough. With this feedback, we had planned to not try it. Finally, the second ump arrived, who was going to be behind the plate. He was a well-known crusty old guy that generally most coaches do not like. Definitely not a guy that will stand for any arguments from the coaches. About halfway through the first inning, the base ump that I spoke with prior to the game was replaced. So we now had two umps, neither of which I had previously talked to. To make a real long story somewhat shorter, it wasn't until we were long out of the game and we made a pitching change that I wanted to try it. I told the other coaches, we had nothing to lose, and I had a good feeling about the crusty old guy. Sure enough, first pitch my son makes a perfectly legal pickoff attempt from the windup to first base. Didn't get the guy out, but other team screams balk. Our other coaches started to say something but I told them to quiet down and lets see what happens. I'll ask the ump for clarification if we get balked. The umps confer, call nothing. Offensive coach questions them, gets the answer and play moves on. I just wanted to thank you guys for all your advice on the way to handle the situation. Keep up the good work. |
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Also - was your 1st baseman holding the runner? He should not have. The best way to do that pickoff play is to make it a "timing" play - where the fielder breaks for the bag then the pitcher makes the move. Our team calls this a "backdoor pickoff" - it's whenever we attempt to pickoff a trail runner. We use that term as a reminder to the fielders that, should the runner end up in a rundown, our fielders are not to throw the ball -rather- to simply force the picked-off runner toward the advance base, thus flushing the more advanced runners of the base. Our ultimate goal is to put out the most advanced runner. * * * You got a good lesson in how common it is for umpires not to understand this rule. My guess is - if you asked 10 youth league umpires about the legality of a pickoff from the windup, you would get a split of about 50/50 on the topic. David Emerling Memphis, TN |
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Based on my survey so far, your ratio seems about right. But, the ump I spoke to yesterday that was unsure, said he'd definitely check into it because he likes finding out subtle differences in the rules between OBR and FED. |
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GB |
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