NCAA rules test

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I haven't seen that thread (I've avoided the baseball side of that site since nearly the time the new format was introduced), but I have "the ball is dead" as one of my answers to #17, and I had it scored as "correct".

That said, I can't figure out what's wrong with some of the others I missed -- so I'm perfectly willing to accept that some of the answer keu is wrong.

The answer key given on the other Forum is wrong. I worked with Jim Paronto on the 2005 test. The play in question echoes a play from Joe Brinkman's book, The Umpire's Handbook, which I edited back in 1987. Here's the comment I added to the first draft of the test: This is a great play! If you’ll recall, we discussed this at the San Antonio meeting. As I understand the question, under NCAA rules (and your interpretation: BRD, §306) R1 is not out. Under the latest PRO interpretation, R1 IS out because the ball did not pass by (within arm’s reach) of the fielder. Their theory is that when the runner is hit in those circumstances, that changes the dynamics of the play on a ball that was headed for the outfield.

The correct answer is f.

The Paronto interpretation, which WAS the pro interpretation at the time of Brinkman's book, is that when the fielders play in front of the basepath, a runner hit by the ball is NOT out.

I don't know who is bandying about the NCAA test answers, but I'd be quite wary of any posted anywhere other than the NCAA Website.

My problem was with Question 11.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Carl Childress
The answer key given on the other Forum is wrong.

Maybe so, but it does match (at least for question 17) the scoring from the NCAA test web-site.

My problem was with Question 11.

BR is out for interference, ball is dead immediately.

Somewhere (rule book? RefMag's Study Guide?) I recently read something to the effect that "if the batter is out of the box, the burden is on him not to interfere." Since the batter was out of the box, and since he did interfere, call the interference (there's an assumption here, of course, that the batter was in the line of the throw, and that F2 didn't just "soak" the batter to get the call).

[JJ]

The correct answer is f.

The questions are multiple choice, but not listed "a" "b" "c" "d" "e" "f". There is no "f". And they scramble the answers each time you log on, so it's not automatically in the same place in the key each time. I will echo Carl - don't rely on web answers from anywhere but the NCAA site. And I still don't know what the correct NCAA answer is!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by JJ

The questions are multiple choice, but not listed "a" "b" "c" "d" "e" "f". There is no "f". And they scramble the answers each time you log on, so it's not automatically in the same place in the key each time. I will echo Carl - don't rely on web answers from anywhere but the NCAA site. And I still don't know what the correct NCAA answer is!

I just took the test and would have received 49 out of 50 of the answers we had agreed on before it was posted.

The original "correct" answer was f (or the check mark goes by: Allow the play to continue after the batted ball hits the runner at first base).

The correct answers now are: everything except that one and "score the runner from third base."

I'll have to have a serious talk with Jim Paronto. (grin) The answer to that question is a reversal of the official interpretation I received. I'll have to post a correction to BRD section 306.

Well, that's what you get when you fool around with those NCAA boys. (another grin)

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Carl Childress
I just took the test and would have received 49 out of 50 of the answers we had agreed on before it was posted.

Are you willing to help out on 6, 29, 31, 35, 42, 48 and 50? I think I know my mistake on 6, 35 and 48, but I'll be darned if I can see what' wrong with my answers on the other.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Are you willing to help out on 6, 29, 31, 35, 42, 48 and 50? I think I know my mistake on 6, 35 and 48, but I'll be darned if I can see what' wrong with my answers on the other.

Well, I don't want to post the answers before they go up on March 7. I'll be happy to discuss them privately.

[Clyde]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Are you willing to help out on 6, 29, 31, 35, 42, 48 and 50? I think I know my mistake on 6, 35 and 48, but I'll be darned if I can see what' wrong with my answers on the other.

Bob;

I took the test using the answers provided by Notitia Evidens and NFUmp. Their answers were 100% correct as far as the NCAA was concerned. I got them all right except for #50 and I have no clue what the answer to that one is.

6. check all except "The on deck batter may be ejected"

29. The DH is lost when a def player comes in to pitch

31. 1. Smith can only DH if not inserted defensively in the 6th.
2. Smith must be placed in a def position when removed in the 6th.

35. 1. signal BR safe
2. call BR out if defense appeals...

42. 1. BR is out
2. R1 remains at 2b.
3. R2 is out

48. 1. The catcher interferes...
2. The coach at third pulls R3...
3. F1 balks
4. F1 obstructs BR before he touches first.

Clyde

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Clyde

Bob;

I took the test using the answers provided by Notitia Evidens and NFUmp. Their answers were 100% correct as far as the NCAA was concerned. I got them all right except for #50 and I have no clue what the answer to that one is.

6. check all except "The on deck batter may be ejected"

29. The DH is lost when a def player comes in to pitch

31. 1. Smith can only DH if not inserted defensively in the 6th.
2. Smith must be placed in a def position when removed in the 6th.

35. 1. signal BR safe
2. call BR out if defense appeals...

42. 1. BR is out
2. R1 remains at 2b.
3. R2 is out

48. 1. The catcher interferes...
2. The coach at third pulls R3...
3. F1 balks
4. F1 obstructs BR before he touches first.

Clyde

Number 50 is easy - if they had the right answer. One correct answer is: "Members of the offense line up along the third base line to touch knuckles with a home run hitter before he reaches the plate." (5-2d Penalty)

The other correct answer is: "A fielder stands in such a way that a runner tagging up cannot see a catch in the outfield. (8-3f Penalty)

Problem is: They left that off the answer key.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Number 50 is easy - if they had the right answer. One correct answer is: "Members of the offense line up along the third base line to touch knuckles with a home run hitter before he reaches the plate." (5-2d Penalty)

The other correct answer is: "A fielder stands in such a way that a runner tagging up cannot see a catch in the outfield. (8-3f Penalty)

Problem is: They left that off the answer key.

Thanks to both of you. I had the correct "revisions" to 6 and 35, and I have the correct answer to 50 (but not the "computer" answer). On the others...

29. Why isn't "The new left fielder must bat in the spot of the original P/DH" correct?

31. Why must Smith be placed in a defensive position? Can't he just stay DH?

42. Rule reference, please. I read the play as the defense getting one out. With no NCAA guidance (that I found), I applied the OBR interp -- the play stands (and the other answers that go with this). The answer seems to follow the FED interp -- the players should have known it was an infield fly and are at risk.

48. Why is "the catcher interferes ..." a delayed dead ball? Aren't we just ignoring the interference opne BR reaches frist? For that matter, why is "F1 balks" a delayed dead ball? It *might* be, but it's not always (and in practice the ball is dead immediately more than not).

Thanks again for the help/

[insatty]

The NCAA's answer to #24 is apparently, "Disallow BR's attempt to return to second base." I am at a loss to find a rule that supports this. Is the umpire to call time to diallow BR's return? The ball is live, why can't BR return? BR is not running the bases in reverse order to confuse or make a travesty of the game? Can someone help me?

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by insatty
The NCAA's answer to #24 is apparently, "Disallow BR's attempt to return to second base." I am at a loss to find a rule that supports this. Is the umpire to call time to diallow BR's return? The ball is live, why can't BR return? BR is not running the bases in reverse order to confuse or make a travesty of the game? Can someone help me?

The interpretation in NCAA is that if the rule book doesn't cover it, the umpire is to use the OBR rule or interpretation. See OBR 7.01 and CMT.