Player Ejection Volume II

[Baseball_North]

Another ejection situation that I want some input on, guys.

Bottom of the 6th inning. R1, R2, zero outs. Batter is at the plate with a 2-1 count. Squares around to bunt, noticed the fastball is coming in at him, tries to duck out of the way and gets plunked in the shoulder.

PU does not many any call. No point to first base. No "Yes he did! That's a strike!". Just silence. Opposing manager comes out to the PU and barks "Hey! That should be a strike", making reference to the fact that he thought the batter went around.

At that point, PU reluctantly and quietly goes, "Ya, that's a strike". Batter is pissed off and 3B coach comes in to argue. They asked him why he didn't make the call originally and why he waited for the "coach to make the call for him." They then asked him to at least ask his partner for help. He refused, and the batter continued to argue. Finally, PU ejects the batter.

Next batter comes up to the plate, strikes out. Under his breath, he muttered something as simple as "come on...". PU ejected him too, and looked really defensive in doing so. The defense was wondering themselves why he was thrown out, as they didn't hear him say anything and he had his back to the umpire.

In sum.....

#1) What should the call have been on the 1st batter in the situation? Does the position of the bat make the difference, or does it depend if he offered at it or not? Should he have made the call earlier? Should he have asked for help at least?

#2) Was he too defensive... and thus wrongfully ejected the second player?

[JEL]

Only have your slant of events here, not sating you are embellishing, but we don't have both sides of the issue. This will limit my answers at least

#1, The call should have been whatever the umpire saw, regardless of how long he took to make it. The position of the bat really makes no difference unless the position appears to be an offer. The position of the ball was probably the reason PU called a strike. He must have judged it to have been in the zone, or a swing by the batter. Should he have asked for help? If he judged pitch a strike, no. On a check swing, maybe but not mandatory.

#2 If you aren't sure why batter #2 was ejected, neither am I. Can make no comment here.

[DG]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Another ejection situation that I want some input on, guys.

Bottom of the 6th inning. R1, R2, zero outs. Batter is at the plate with a 2-1 count. Squares around to bunt, noticed the fastball is coming in at him, tries to duck out of the way and gets plunked in the shoulder.

PU does not many any call. No point to first base. No "Yes he did! That's a strike!". Just silence. Opposing manager comes out to the PU and barks "Hey! That should be a strike", making reference to the fact that he thought the batter went around.

At that point, PU reluctantly and quietly goes, "Ya, that's a strike". Batter is pissed off and 3B coach comes in to argue. They asked him why he didn't make the call originally and why he waited for the "coach to make the call for him." They then asked him to at least ask his partner for help. He refused, and the batter continued to argue. Finally, PU ejects the batter.

Next batter comes up to the plate, strikes out. Under his breath, he muttered something as simple as "come on...". PU ejected him too, and looked really defensive in doing so. The defense was wondering themselves why he was thrown out, as they didn't hear him say anything and he had his back to the umpire.

In sum.....

#1) What should the call have been on the 1st batter in the situation? Does the position of the bat make the difference, or does it depend if he offered at it or not? Should he have made the call earlier? Should he have asked for help at least?

#2) Was he too defensive... and thus wrongfully ejected the second player?

1) The umpire should take all the time he needs to make the call, but should not take so long that the coach comes out of the dugout before he has made a call. That's a LONG time. If a fastball is running in on him and he trys to duck and get's hit, my inclination would be to send him to 1B. Either way, 1 or 2 seconds max, there should be a call, one way or the other.
2) If the batter said "come on" and that's all he said, I would ignore that.

[sir_eldren]

Taking what you said and envisioning it, I would have given the batter first base. I do not consider holding the bat over the plate a strike unless there is a motion toward the ball or I determine he really thought that's where the ball was going to be. Next, he had to have abandoned his attempt to swing by ducking. Forget whether the bat went past the plate, he's got to avoid, and if he ain't swinging, it doesn't matter where the bat goes in his effort to move. So to first my batter would go (and to first he went when I had a very similar situation a couple of months ago).

As for the second ejection: sounds rather shaky to me, but I suspect that either your partner was feeling a bit uppity, or you're missing a part of the story between him and and player.

-Craig

[JEL]

I do not consider holding the bat over the plate a strike unless there is a motion toward the ball

At least in FED, holding the bat over the plate is a strike as outlined in 2-8-1. This is different from softball in that the mere holding of the bat over the plate is not considered a strike.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Another ejection situation that I want some input on, guys.

Bottom of the 6th inning. R1, R2, zero outs. Batter is at the plate with a 2-1 count. Squares around to bunt, noticed the fastball is coming in at him, tries to duck out of the way and gets plunked in the shoulder.

PU does not many any call. No point to first base. No "Yes he did! That's a strike!". Just silence. Opposing manager comes out to the PU and barks "Hey! That should be a strike", making reference to the fact that he thought the batter went around.

At that point, PU reluctantly and quietly goes, "Ya, that's a strike". Batter is pissed off and 3B coach comes in to argue. They asked him why he didn't make the call originally and why he waited for the "coach to make the call for him." They then asked him to at least ask his partner for help. He refused, and the batter continued to argue. Finally, PU ejects the batter.

Next batter comes up to the plate, strikes out. Under his breath, he muttered something as simple as "come on...". PU ejected him too, and looked really defensive in doing so. The defense was wondering themselves why he was thrown out, as they didn't hear him say anything and he had his back to the umpire.

In sum.....

#1) What should the call have been on the 1st batter in the situation? Does the position of the bat make the difference, or does it depend if he offered at it or not? Should he have made the call earlier? Should he have asked for help at least?

#2) Was he too defensive... and thus wrongfully ejected the second player?

Baseball_north,

This is your second thread questioning the officials calls over ejections in which it seems YOUR players were involved and possibly guilty. At some point you have to realalize that bad baseball , usually gets bad officiating. Something you just have'nt come around to accept.

I used to tell my players to SHUT their mouths and accept what happens out there, DEAL WITH IT. I will deal with the officials. At some point, I realized that the official doing my game did'nt belong there however he was the best one we had for that game. Arguing with him only pissed him off, and I very very seldom won.

I know your going to get all offended by this and say that you are just trying to find out information to learn how these things should be properly handled the next time. I have already coverd that. The truth of the matter is you want us to make you feel good by saying the officials were wrong and you were right.

Hey Sh**T Happens, Deal with it.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by Baseball_North

#1) What should the call have been on the 1st batter in the situation? Does the position of the bat make the difference, or does it depend if he offered at it or not? Should he have made the call earlier? Should he have asked for help at least?

#2) Was he too defensive... and thus wrongfully ejected the second player?

Pitches coming straight at the batter, are also coming straight at the umpire. (if we are in the slot) The PU has a high probability of getting hit and, as a result, may freeze on his call. This still happens to me on occasion and I have good catchers. I instinctively tense up on a inside pitch when the batter bails out.

The PU should have made no call (ball) and gone to his partner when the coach came out about the batter getting first base. Let the BU be the final judge of whether the batter offered. This is one of those occasions where the plate umpire probably does not have the best view of what happened. The base umpire, at the very least, has a relaxed and detached view of what happened. When we are about to get hurt, our perception and judgment are distorted.

As for the second situation, I would have to be there. However, I am known for quick ejections on players that give me any lip.

Peter

[DG]

Originally posted by JEL
I do not consider holding the bat over the plate a strike unless there is a motion toward the ball

At least in FED, holding the bat over the plate is a strike as outlined in 2-8-1. This is different from softball in that the mere holding of the bat over the plate is not considered a strike.

2-8-1 simply defines a bunt as "holds the bat in the path of the ball". IMO, if you hold the bat in the path of the ball, the two will meet, and we will not have a question of whether he attempted or not. I think we still have to judge whether he attempted, even in FED.

[Baseball_North]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I realize that my view is slanted, as I was the first batter that was ejected. I realize that I am telling my side of the story, but I am also an umpire and I know the perspective from behind the catcher too.

Our league is age 19-21, and it gets pretty heated. We seldom have problems such as these, but it is not just our team. Opposing players have had confrontations as well. We actually have a lot of solid umpires up here, but in my opinion, this guy is not fit to do these games. In previous games, he messed up a few calls, and he never seems to sure of himself.

I know that these situations happen in baseball. In this situation, I felt that it was not handled properly by the PU. That is why I posted it on here. I wanted to get some other opinions on the situation.

And I realize that umpires are not going to be perfect (from being one myself for 6 years), but just as I expect a player to be pissed at me for screwing up, I do not expect myself or my teammates to let something like this slide without any argument. This was a big game too, we were playing the team directly ahead of us in the standings.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Baseball_North]

Oh, and another thing that isn't totally relevant.....

I might not have had such a conversation with the umpire if a high 70s fastball drilled me in the bicep. For anyone that has been hit by a pitch and not given 1st base, no matter the situation, is enough to piss you off.

[David B]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Oh, and another thing that isn't totally relevant.....

I might not have had such a conversation with the umpire if a high 70s fastball drilled me in the bicep. For anyone that has been hit by a pitch and not given 1st base, no matter the situation, is enough to piss you off.

I don't know where you play, but around here in summer league the guys want to HIT.

We have lots of our college players and wantabes that will try their best to stay in the box even if they are hit (of course this would be a marginal hit)

Whether the umpire is qualified or not, he still is the umpire. Part of being a good player is knowing how to respond to different umpires.

You have to know which ones you can talk to and which ones you can't.

Thanks
David

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Oh, and another thing that isn't totally relevant.....

I might not have had such a conversation with the umpire if a high 70s fastball drilled me in the bicep. For anyone that has been hit by a pitch and not given 1st base, no matter the situation, is enough to piss you off.

Then make an attempt to get out of the way. Then you will not have to worry about it.

But I have seen coaches go nuts over a curve ball hitting their batter and they moved into the pitch. So who cares what their reaction is.

Peace

[Baseball_North]

Originally posted by David B

I don't know where you play, but around here in summer league the guys want to HIT.

We have lots of our college players and wantabes that will try their best to stay in the box even if they are hit (of course this would be a marginal hit)

Whether the umpire is qualified or not, he still is the umpire. Part of being a good player is knowing how to respond to different umpires.

You have to know which ones you can talk to and which ones you can't.

Thanks
David

David,

I agree with you. Almost every umpire in the association I know by name, as I have worked games with 90% of the umpires that umpire my games when I am playing. I did not know this guy, and only recognized him from a previous game where he messed up some easy calls. I know that most other umpires would have made a quicker call on this play. And I would not have said some of the things I said to get tossed if it were an umpire I know personally.

Hopefully I don't have any upcoming assignments with this umpire. That would be pure awkwardness.

[Baseball_North]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Then make an attempt to get out of the way. Then you will not have to worry about it.

But I have seen coaches go nuts over a curve ball hitting their batter and they moved into the pitch. So who cares what their reaction is.

Peace

I know what you are saying, but I did try to get out of the way. That's why I hit the deck. The ball would have hit me square in the stomach, put I just reacted and moved in a way where it hit my arm.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Baseball_North


I know what you are saying, but I did try to get out of the way. That's why I hit the deck. The ball would have hit me square in the stomach, put I just reacted and moved in a way where it hit my arm.

None of us were there. We did not see the play. We can only give some feedback based on our own experiences. Maybe the umpire did blow the call. But maybe he was correct too. I was not there and I did not see the play. But I do see more and more batters at all levels trying to get hit by pitches.

Peace