slide rule

[Dan S.]

as need not be explained, the slide rule is there to avoid collisions and getting people hurt. Typically this is called on a play at the plate, but i called it at second on a force play.
Runner on first, ball hit to shortstop, the runner coming in to second was out by 3 - 4 steps, didnt slide and didnt move off to the side. he just turned his run into a trot and continued in the basepath through second base...yes, THROUGH second base...just kept on trotting. The fielder in the meantime, didnt really look all too enthusiastic about making a throw to first...why, im not sure, but i can come up with three simple reasons...either he is lazy, which i doubt, or he had no chance on the runner at first, or he really had no throwing lane because the runner was still there. after i realized he wasnt going to throw, which was already well after the runner to 2nd had been retired, i turned to first and saw the runner one step beyond the bag. i called the no slide rule on the runner at second and i called the BR out at first too. of course, all hell broke loose, and after a few comments and further explanation, i told everyone that maybe i shouldnt have used the call 'no slide rule' i should maybe have said 'interference' for the runner not vacating a throwing lane, but either way the call would have been the same. essentially i called the no slide rule because the fielder is the one here that HAD to avoid the runner. obviously, he could have tried to make a throw, but that would have likely ended up in a collision, one which i'm sure he would rather avoid.

any opinions: thanks all

[DG]

Originally posted by Dan S.
as need not be explained, the slide rule is there to avoid collisions and getting people hurt. Typically this is called on a play at the plate, but i called it at second on a force play.
Runner on first, ball hit to shortstop, the runner coming in to second was out by 3 - 4 steps, didnt slide and didnt move off to the side. he just turned his run into a trot and continued in the basepath through second base...yes, THROUGH second base...just kept on trotting. The fielder in the meantime, didnt really look all too enthusiastic about making a throw to first...why, im not sure, but i can come up with three simple reasons...either he is lazy, which i doubt, or he had no chance on the runner at first, or he really had no throwing lane because the runner was still there. after i realized he wasnt going to throw, which was already well after the runner to 2nd had been retired, i turned to first and saw the runner one step beyond the bag. i called the no slide rule on the runner at second and i called the BR out at first too. of course, all hell broke loose, and after a few comments and further explanation, i told everyone that maybe i shouldnt have used the call 'no slide rule' i should maybe have said 'interference' for the runner not vacating a throwing lane, but either way the call would have been the same. essentially i called the no slide rule because the fielder is the one here that HAD to avoid the runner. obviously, he could have tried to make a throw, but that would have likely ended up in a collision, one which i'm sure he would rather avoid.

any opinions: thanks all

Well it all depends on what rules are being used. FED and NCAA have a force play slide rule (FPSR) which would require the runner to slide directly at the bag or slide away or run away from the fielder making the play. If he does not then it is automatic DP, by rule, regardless of what the fielder does with the ball. In NCAA the runner can go in standing up if he does not alter the play or make contact. In OBR there are no provisions for calling anything, unless he can be called for interference and I don't even think that would be called if the runner were hit by a thrown ball. If he does not make contact with a fielder, and fielder does not throw the ball, then how can he be called for interference?

In the SHOW the runners will generally get down on the ground, because the SS/2B will generally ignore the runner and throw right through him if he is still standing, and at short range you could lose some teeth or get some facial bones broken getting in the way of a throw. That's why FED and NCAA have the FPSR rule, ie it's a safety rule.

A runner is never required to slide, in any rules I am aware of, there is always an option to avoid. There may be some local rules to that affect, but these are bad rules, because you are more likely to get hurt sliding than avoiding.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by DG
[B]Well it all depends on what rules are being used. FED and NCAA have a force play slide rule (FPSR) which would require the runner to slide directly at the bag or slide away or run away from the fielder making the play. If he does not then it is automatic DP, by rule, regardless of what the fielder does with the ball.

What FED rule specifically outlines the FSPR? I can't seem to find it but I know we talk about it every year.

thanks in advance.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG

Well it all depends on what rules are being used. FED and NCAA have a force play slide rule (FPSR) which would require the runner to slide directly at the bag or slide away or run away from the fielder making the play. If he does not then it is automatic DP, by rule, regardless of what the fielder does with the ball. In NCAA the runner can go in standing up if he does not alter the play or make contact. In OBR there are no provisions for calling anything, unless he can be called for interference and I don't even think that would be called if the runner were hit by a thrown ball. If he does not make contact with a fielder, and fielder does not throw the ball, then how can he be called for interference?

In the SHOW the runners will generally get down on the ground, because the SS/2B will generally ignore the runner and throw right through him if he is still standing, and at short range you could lose some teeth or get some facial bones broken getting in the way of a throw. That's why FED and NCAA have the FPSR rule, ie it's a safety rule.

A runner is never required to slide, in any rules I am aware of, there is always an option to avoid. There may be some local rules to that affect, but these are bad rules, because you are more likely to get hurt sliding than avoiding.

Even with the FPSR there has to be interference. What interference was there in the original play? None. A runner never has to slide unless local idiots have mangled existing rules or made up some of their own.

[Dan S.]

Even with the FPSR there has to be interference. What interference was there in the original play? None. A runner never has to slide unless local idiots have mangled existing rules or made up some of their own.

true Rich F., but the rule also states - 'or alters the play of the defensive player, interference shall be called'. since the defensive player could not make the throw either for fear of hitting the runner in the face or for fear of the runner running into him, i believe that is an altering of the play. just because a player doesnt himself want to get hurt to 'prove'/'warrant' an interference call is no reason to ignore it. the runner was clearly hindering the fielders ability to make a clean safe throw. in these recreational leagues, where players are paying to play, i believe non-heads up baseball and lack of courtesy to an opposing player should not be ignored. most leagues have an automatic ejection for collisions, so when someone decides to avoid a collision rather then get into one by trying to make a play, it seems the potential collision offender should be penalized as well. that to me seems to be the intent of the rules, and if they are doing that in the NCAA, surely in a recreational league it should be as well.

Thanks for pointing out about this rule DG. All along I felt I was more right then wrong, but still bothered over it’s true legality. I feel better having read this and actually see a rule on this exact play at a professional sports level..
Jumpmaster – see rule 8.4 in the NCAA 2002 rule book. Here’s a link to the pdf file.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...all_rules.pdf. I don’t know why it’s 2002, I simply did a yahoo search and that’s what came up.

[DG]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
[B]

What FED rule specifically outlines the FSPR? I can't seem to find it but I know we talk about it every year.

thanks in advance.

In FED: 8-4-2(b) and Exception.

[DG]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Even with the FPSR there has to be interference. What interference was there in the original play? None. A runner never has to slide unless local idiots have mangled existing rules or made up some of their own.

In FED, if he does not slide directly to the bag, or slide or run away from the force play, it is FPSR, and automatic DP. In the original play he did not slide or run away. I am stating FED rule here, and as previously mentioned there would be no penalty in OBR for not sliding.

[DG]

Originally posted by Dan S.
Even with the FPSR there has to be interference. What interference was there in the original play? None. A runner never has to slide unless local idiots have mangled existing rules or made up some of their own.

true Rich F., but the rule also states - 'or alters the play of the defensive player, interference shall be called'. since the defensive player could not make the throw either for fear of hitting the runner in the face or for fear of the runner running into him, i believe that is an altering of the play. just because a player doesnt himself want to get hurt to 'prove'/'warrant' an interference call is no reason to ignore it. the runner was clearly hindering the fielders ability to make a clean safe throw. in these recreational leagues, where players are paying to play, i believe non-heads up baseball and lack of courtesy to an opposing player should not be ignored. most leagues have an automatic ejection for collisions, so when someone decides to avoid a collision rather then get into one by trying to make a play, it seems the potential collision offender should be penalized as well. that to me seems to be the intent of the rules, and if they are doing that in the NCAA, surely in a recreational league it should be as well.

Thanks for pointing out about this rule DG. All along I felt I was more right then wrong, but still bothered over it’s true legality. I feel better having read this and actually see a rule on this exact play at a professional sports level..
Jumpmaster – see rule 8.4 in the NCAA 2002 rule book. Here’s a link to the pdf file.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...all_rules.pdf. I don’t know why it’s 2002, I simply did a yahoo search and that’s what came up.

Again, it depends on rules being played. If the fielder does not throw the ball, I don't see how I can call interference, in OBR.

[DG]

Go to http://www.ncaa.org again and surf. The 2004 rules are easy to find.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by DG
Go to http://www.ncaa.org again and surf. The 2004 rules are easy to find.

Click this.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...ball_rules.pdf