How is your mechanic...

[thumpferee]

Been thinking about mechanic on swinging 3rd stikes.

I know the ruling but wanted to get your mechanic on what you do when the BR cannot run.

I had a situation 2 years ago I can't seem to get off my mind.

Situation: R2 and R1, 1 out, 2 strikes on the batter. Pitch is in the dirt, batter swings, strike 3. BR takes off toward 1st base as all other runners take off. PU makes no call on the BR (I assumed there were 2 outs), the catcher throws to 3rd which beats the runner for the force out, so I thought(no tag was applied).

Anyway, offensive coach comes out and states there are only 2 outs. I immediately called time and told all players to stop where they were. I go to my P and ask him how many outs there are. He states, 2. Well you know the rest, R3 and R2, 2 outs...

I come out point, signal out and voice, batter is out, batter is out!

Is that the correct mechanic?

What do you do?

[jicecone]

That is exactly what you should be doing. Preventive umpiring. Letting the batter know that they are out and saving the arguments after the fact because no one is thinking, but just reacting.

I almost always will state "On the swing, Batter is out, batter is out".

The most humorus coach is the one that comes out to try and explain that at the time that the batter struck out, first base was not occupied because they had a steal on and his player was on the way to second.??????????????????????????????

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Players are responsible for knowing the situation. It's nice that I know it too but players are supposed to be aware of when a BR can run and when he cannot.

As Jicecone pointed out, stealing is irrelevant; 1st is occupied at Time of Pitch. With less than 2 outs and 1st occupied the BR cannot run on a dropped third strike.

In this situation I come up with the strike mechanic to let everyone know that we have a third strike. Being fully aware of the run/can't run situation I will also yell the batter is out as he runs off to 1st. This doesn't alway prevent the catcher from throwing to 1st.

In your situation it sounds like the catcher knew what he was doing and recognized there were not two outs, the batter was out, and that R2 was stealing - he threw to 3rd for the third out. 3rd baseman was asleep and didn't tag R2. So sad; defense looses as R1 and R2 advance.

Calling the batter out can come anytime before the next pitch... and obviously the sooner the better. Generally they figure it out on their own and just leave for the dugout.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've seen this mechanic spelled out somewhere in the NFHS mechanics manual... but for the life of me I can't find it this morning. Somebody help me out. Maybe it was in the softball manual.

I've heard some umpires talk about making a safe signal to signify that yes he can run. I DISAGREE WITH THIS.

Give the strike signal; I might even show three fingers to say this is strike three; if I'm quick enough to recognise the situation and the potentially ensuing confusion, I will yell "The batter is out! Batter is out!"

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Been thinking about mechanic on swinging 3rd stikes.

I know the ruling but wanted to get your mechanic on what you do when the BR cannot run.

I had a situation 2 years ago I can't seem to get off my mind.

Situation: R2 and R1, 1 out, 2 strikes on the batter. Pitch is in the dirt, batter swings, strike 3. BR takes off toward 1st base as all other runners take off. PU makes no call on the BR (I assumed there were 2 outs), the catcher throws to 3rd which beats the runner for the force out, so I thought(no tag was applied).

Anyway, offensive coach comes out and states there are only 2 outs. I immediately called time and told all players to stop where they were. I go to my P and ask him how many outs there are. He states, 2. Well you know the rest, R3 and R2, 2 outs...

I come out point, signal out and voice, batter is out, batter is out!

Is that the correct mechanic?

What do you do?

I carry my clicker, both on the field and behind the plate. Such stuff never happens in my games!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I've seen this mechanic spelled out somewhere in the NFHS mechanics manual... but for the life of me I can't find it this morning. Somebody help me out. Maybe it was in the softball manual.

Case book. 8.4.1K

[mcrowder]

On Strike Three, you'll hear me (and most of my umpires) yell out a nice "Strike Three, Batter's Out!" or simply "Strike Three!" as the situation warrants. The astute player or coach will recognize the difference.

[Baseball_North]

In my opinion, players should know this rule.

On a swinging strike three, I will merely do the "out" mechanic, with no sound from my mouth. On an obvious swinging strike, you SHOW, not tell.

I would make an exception if this was a younger age group, and maybe say "Batter's Out".

In saying this, if the runner starts to run down to first in these situations (which they don't 80% of the time at least), I will say "batter's out".

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I've heard some umpires talk about making a safe signal to signify that yes he can run. I DISAGREE WITH THIS.

PU giving the safe sign to indicate the 3rd strike was not caught is an NCAA mechanic. At least it was a consistently followed mechanic by all umpires in last year's College World Series, and it was taught by two of those CWS umpires at a clinic I attended last fall.

[nickrego]

On a 3rd Strike Not Caught where the batter can not run to 1st, our association suggests using the Out Knock and verbalizing Batter’s Out.

Side note: For 3rd SNC’s where the batter can run, our association suggests we hold our right fist above our head, with no verbalization, until the runner is either safe or out. I don’t like this because may times it is thought I am indicating the batter is out.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

PU giving the safe sign to indicate the 3rd strike was not caught is an NCAA mechanic. At least it was a consistently followed mechanic by all umpires in last year's College World Series, and it was taught by two of those CWS umpires at a clinic I attended last fall.

I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics.

What signal do you make when a line drive short-hops an infielder? Why do you make it?

--Rich

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics. [/B]

As Rich points out, the signal is similar in rationale to signalling no catch on a fly ball or line drive. It is made when an uncaught third strike is not obvious and not followed immediately by a tag of the batter by the catcher. It is for the game participants. It is also accompanied by a verbal "no catch."

I find myself rarely using the mechanic because most uncaught third strikes are obvious and the players react as they should, with batter running and catcher playing on him. There have, however, been a few occasions where I've used the mechanic and it seemed to serve its purpose satisfactorily.

[DG]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Been thinking about mechanic on swinging 3rd stikes.

I know the ruling but wanted to get your mechanic on what you do when the BR cannot run.

I had a situation 2 years ago I can't seem to get off my mind.

Situation: R2 and R1, 1 out, 2 strikes on the batter. Pitch is in the dirt, batter swings, strike 3. BR takes off toward 1st base as all other runners take off. PU makes no call on the BR (I assumed there were 2 outs), the catcher throws to 3rd which beats the runner for the force out, so I thought(no tag was applied).

Anyway, offensive coach comes out and states there are only 2 outs. I immediately called time and told all players to stop where they were. I go to my P and ask him how many outs there are. He states, 2. Well you know the rest, R3 and R2, 2 outs...

I come out point, signal out and voice, batter is out, batter is out!

Is that the correct mechanic?

What do you do?

If I am the PU, I verbally call STRIKE, I visually show fist, and with 1B occupied and less than 2 outs, I say BATTER IS OUT, maybe twice, if the action dictates. Sounds to me like your mechanic is sound.

[Kaliix]

If it's strike three on a batter, is the normal mechanic to signal a strike followed by an out signal?

If so, would it make sense on a dropped third strike to signal strike and out if the runner could not advance or signal strike but make no out sign if the runner can advance because first base is open or there are two outs?

That would seem to keep the signals consistent.

[Edited by Kaliix on May 20th, 2004 at 09:27 AM]