Line in the sand

[NSump]

Time to stir the pot.


Recent game, I saw a PU watch an idiot draw a line in the ground after a clled strike. He DID NOT eject.

Now, this isn't Pro baseball, it is low-level adult ball. Can ANYONE out here tell me why you wouldn't toss the guy who draws the line and tells everyone tht you are an incompetent a** in the process of doing so?

Also, if you don't tell me how your actions WILL NOT screw the guy who needs to deal with him the next time he does it.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by NSump
Time to stir the pot.


Recent game, I saw a PU watch an idiot draw a line in the ground after a clled strike. He DID NOT eject.

Now, this isn't Pro baseball, it is low-level adult ball. Can ANYONE out here tell me why you wouldn't toss the guy who draws the line and tells everyone tht you are an incompetent a** in the process of doing so?

Also, if you don't tell me how your actions WILL NOT screw the guy who needs to deal with him the next time he does it.

For one, this is not an automatic ejection in my book. You can send a message without throwing out a kid. You can make it be known that he now has defined his strike zone and call anything that looks like it comes near the boxes and he will get the message. I had this happen to me after I struck out a kid and I had a talk with an experienced assistant and I had no problems the rest of the game. And I know a lot of very experienced umpires that do the same. Now this does not mean you should never not eject a kid, but "there is more than one way to skin a cat." And a good coach is going to get the message and take care of it himself.

But that is my opinion, I am sure someone else will tell you what they do.

Peace

[DG]

If I read the post right, this was not a kid, but a low adult. I assume a low adult is over 18 but not over 28. In my area there is an active adult league with 28 and over and 38 and over leagues. Umpiring adult ball is different than anything else. They are more vocal about calls, they play a lot of money to play, and they usually don't have more than 10 or 11 guys at any one game and a lot of times only 9. Most of them are just happy to be out on a Sunday afternoon playing baseball. Some bring their wife and kids, and it is a fun day for the family. So I cut them a little slack. Drawing a line on the ground would be humorous to me, in the adult league, and I would not eject for this. Call me a name and you are gone, but there are many other transgessions that I would just shrug off. I don't worry about the next guy. I assume he will handle as he sees best.

Lastly, if this was not a called third strike, his strike zone just got real big...

[jicecone]

Originally posted by NSump
Time to stir the pot.

Now this isn't Pro baseball, it is low-level adult ball. Can ANYONE out here tell me why you wouldn't toss the guy who draws the line and tells everyone tht you are an incompetent a** in the process of doing so?

If I am truly a professional and I know who really has the last say, why am I going to lower myself to this character, just to prove something ,to someone else. Some players really get off on getting you irratated. When you overlook the small things and handle business when you need to, YOU are much more effective as an official.

The somewhere near the strike zone call on the next pitch is an very effective method that I have also used. But, for the most I don't let the plyers or coaches rile me. Why?

SIMPLE, I HAVE THE FINAL SAY. No need to flaunt it.

[MichaelVA2000]

NSump

Last time a batter drew a line in the dirt that I warned him not to draw, I asked him for his bat. After he gave it to me, I thanked him while putting the bat handle into the line and continued the line to the gate. I opened the gate and drew an arrow at the end of the line ( -> ), walked back, handed the bat to the batter and while pointing to the line and sweeping my arm upward told him to follow the line, he was GONE for the night!

Michael

[GarthB]

Originally posted by MichaelVA2000
NSump

Last time a batter drew a line in the dirt that I warned him not to draw, (Snip) he was GONE for the night!

Michael

Finally.

[LDUB]

Just a question here. Is this line running length wise through the batter's box showing how inside the pitch was?

[millhouse76]

Bull***, eject his a** and the next time that you run into him stick it up his a** again. There is nobody involved with baseball that doesn't know that he can not do that. He is showing you up, an he knows it. That is the reason that he is doing in. Take care of the problem. Talk to him? All that does is let him know that he got away with it. The coach might talk to him, but that does not take care of his attitude. He just embarrased you, and your are obliged to return the favor. Final say? If you know that you have the final say, and the players know, why don't you use it here. There is no reason that this guy should stay in the game. Nobody will think any less of you.

[NSump]

I was starting to think everyone was spineless here.

What is this, "cut him slack" crap. What is this "I'll talk to the coach and he will deal with it," crap?

The last few have dealt with it the way it needs to be - toss him.

DON'T YOU GET IT, THIS IS A FELONY. Why keep him in the game? Tell me how that helps?

For those, like Rutledge who want to keep this idiot around:

1. If you then open up your zone for him, you are cheating.
2. It doesn't matter WHERE the line is.
3. When he draws the line on me the next night, I have a sh*thouse becuase YOU didn't do your job.
4. Adult, youth, day, night, spring, fall, it doesn't matter...eject him.

I guess telling everyone you are an incompetent a** by drawing the line isn't a big deal for some jellyfish.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by NSump
I was starting to think everyone was spineless here.

What is this, "cut him slack" crap. What is this "I'll talk to the coach and he will deal with it," crap?

The last few have dealt with it the way it needs to be - toss him.

DON'T YOU GET IT, THIS IS A FELONY. Why keep him in the game? Tell me how that helps?

For those, like Rutledge who want to keep this idiot around:

1. If you then open up your zone for him, you are cheating.
2. It doesn't matter WHERE the line is.
3. When he draws the line on me the next night, I have a sh*thouse becuase YOU didn't do your job.
4. Adult, youth, day, night, spring, fall, it doesn't matter...eject him.

I guess telling everyone you are an incompetent a** by drawing the line isn't a big deal for some jellyfish.

Ya know, there was time when I actually DID NOT have enough self-confidence in my officiating, that I believed I really had to SHOW people who was in charge of the game.

Over time, I matured in my officiating skills, mechanics and knowledge, to the point that I don't have to prove to you or any one else how good I am. This is demonstrated each time I walk on the field by the way I dress, my mannerism, attitude, hustle and application of the rules.

If you believe that the "MACHO OFFICIATING ATTITUDE" works for you, by all means, Go For It.

Did you ever hear the story about the young and old Bull up on the mountain over looking all the hefers?

NEVER MIND, you probably wouldn't get anyway.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by NSump
For those, like Rutledge who want to keep this idiot around:

1. If you then open up your zone for him, you are cheating.
2. It doesn't matter WHERE the line is.
3. When he draws the line on me the next night, I have a sh*thouse becuase YOU didn't do your job.
4. Adult, youth, day, night, spring, fall, it doesn't matter...eject him.

I guess telling everyone you are an incompetent a** by drawing the line isn't a big deal for some jellyfish.

There is a tape the you can buy from Gerry Davis Sports, that has a situation on the tape were in a Minor League game, and player draws a line in the sand after a called pitch. The umpire stops the game or calls time, comes from behind the plate and tells the catcher, "I guess that is were the new strike zone is." He says it loud enough so everyone can hear him. And then next pitch that is unhittable, he calls him out I believe. And the actual umpire that made the call was giving commentary on why he handled it that way and was discussing it with a former MLB Manager and what was right or wrong about his actions.

So if you feel that you only have one option, good for you. I am just saying for me it is not "automatic." I do not need to eject anyone to make a point. I think the better umpires realize that as well.

Peace

[3appleshigh]

I believe it matters who and how long they have been umpiring in the area. A newer official needs to and in my opinion must toss the guy. He needs to gain a rep as someone who will not take crap or that is all he will get. But after a little while the ump can now relax and the players and coaches will take care of problems and the games is much easier. I'll give an example.


For two years I would toss people a little quicker than most , i would be more strick with certain rules that others let slide and I took no guff. I realized my no nonsense rep was solidified in the start of the third season doing a midget (16-19yr olds) game. I had ump'd these kids a number of times, but they had a new pitcher. In the first inning after a high pitch was not called a strike (I do have a low zone) as the pitcher wanted he slammed his glove on his knee and turn around and swore, he was mad at the call, but I truly didn't care, however three yes three of the infielders (C, 1B and SS) all called time together and went to the pitcher and told him to shut-up or he wouldn't be playing long. The C then appologized to me on the return trip and said it wouuld not happen again. That year I didn't toss a single kid from that team, where the two previous years it was probably 3-7 a season got the boot. so it is a senario thing, not quite cut and dried. One person is not going to ruin an age old rep. but could give you one if your just starting out.

I now have the ability to laugh at the player who draws the line in the sand and complains about the zone a little. He know's I have a line and is in general not willing to pursue things very far in fear of it. That line has grown farther and farther away now, but they don't realize it. I still hear at games, "watch your mouth, this guy will throw you." (I threw 2 players last year, real tough choices too, 1 kid stood on second base and at the top of his lungs told the opposition to F%%% off - and the other threw a total hissy fit over a strike-out and threw his helmet and bat and screamed "You're un-F%%%ing- believable. That was it.)

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jicecone
Over time, I matured in my officiating skills, mechanics and knowledge, to the point that I don't have to prove to you or any one else how good I am. This is demonstrated each time I walk on the field by the way I dress, my mannerism, attitude, hustle and application of the rules.

The good officials already have shown they are in charge by what they do not have to say, or the way they might say certain things and get respect off the bat, before the game even starts. You can call it a presence, or demenor and professional look. Whatever it is, I do not have to spend my time letting anyone know I am in charge when I umpire or officiate. I have accomplished that before the game even starts.

Peace

[NSump]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

I am just saying for me it is not "automatic." I do not need to eject anyone to make a point. I think the better umpires realize that as well.

-----------------------------

Now Mr. Rutledge, if you are going to use a vidoe as evidence, tell the WHOLE STORY.

First, in the video,"Handle It!", the Minor League umpire, Al Kaplin tells former MLB manager Terry Colins and us all that , "This is not the way you should handle this in amateur games."

He goes on to say that in Professional games, the player, the coach, everyone involved knows WHY the FYC was made.

In our universe, some punk kid will go off on you and now you will also have the coach on you to. Now you have two ejections instead of the automatic felony ejection.

Now, I am not going to sit back and intimate that I am a "better umpire," as you have. Nor will I post me "resume." All I will tell you is that I have worked multiple National events and a good friend of mine who was a crew chief in AAA also tosses EVERYTIME. I think that we both are "pretty good umpires". Obviously my friend is probably better than I.

What I also know is that any time I have had to clean up after spineless jellyfish, it wasn't pleasant.

Finally, exactly what "point" am I making in NOT ejecting the batter who has shown complete disrespect and told everyone how bad the call was?" Would you have as much restaint had he yelled, "That was a foot f***ing outside you idiot!" In my world they are equal.

[NSump]

Originally posted by 3appleshigh
)

I now have the ability to laugh at the player who draws the line in the sand and complains about the zone a little. He know's I have a line and is in general not willing to pursue things very far in fear of it. That line has grown farther and farther away now, but they don't realize it. I still hear at games, "watch your mouth, this guy will throw you." (I threw 2 players last year, real tough choices too, 1 kid stood on second base and at the top of his lungs told the opposition to F%%% off - and the other threw a total hissy fit over a strike-out and threw his helmet and bat and screamed "You're un-F%%%ing- believable. That was it.)

You are correct - to a point. I rarely need to throw guys out now. After many years, I don't get much grief locally.

However, FELONIES shuch as this need to be dealt with. What happens when the "new" umpire the next day has teh same player you allowed to stay around draw a line on him? He now not only has to eject, but is goiong to get grief because the "veteran" umpire yesterday didn't toss. You have done your junior umpire a disservice. Lead by example and the young guy probably doesn't have to deal with him tomorrow.

BTW, I haven't had anyone who "knows" me draw a line on me in four years. They KNOW it is an automatic ejection.