Line in the sand

[NSump]

Originally posted by jicecone
Ya know, there was time when I actually DID NOT have enough self-confidence in my officiating, that I believed I really had to SHOW people who was in charge of the game.

If you believe that the "MACHO OFFICIATING ATTITUDE" works for you, by all means, Go For It.

[/B]

I don't see why tossing someone for such an offense is "macho"? I don't yell, scream, or anything, just quick flick of the wirst and the offender is gone.

I just can't see how keeping this guy in the game does anything but cause further grief.

What happens next inning when the OTHER team does it?

[Rich]

Originally posted by NSump

I don't see why tossing someone for such an offense is "macho"? I don't yell, scream, or anything, just quick flick of the wirst and the offender is gone.

I just can't see how keeping this guy in the game does anything but cause further grief.

What happens next inning when the OTHER team does it? [/B]

Yeah, I mean there is no emotion to it. He's committed an act that gets him the rest of the game off. Bring me a sub. An ejection is not a failure on the umpire's part if the act deserved an ejection.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by NSump


Now Mr. Rutledge, if you are going to use a vidoe as evidence, tell the WHOLE STORY.

First, in the video,"Handle It!", the Minor League umpire, Al Kaplin tells former MLB manager Terry Colins and us all that , "This is not the way you should handle this in amateur games."

Well when I saw this video, it was at an Association meeting (we own these tapes), there was a D1 Umpire in the room as well as someone that works Minor League ball. There was an interesting conversation, which not everyone agreed with how to handle it or what was the exact way to handle it. And our current President was asked this year (who is a D1/minor league umpire) and he did not suggest that it was an "automatic" ejection. So let us understand that every situation is different and everyone handles this in their own way. I agree that you do not allow this to go one without addressing it, but you sure do not let it go. And letting it go does not mean you are not ejecting someone.

I have talked to many umpires and many have had different opinions on what you do and what you do not do.

So if it makes you maintain your respect by ejecting someone, more power to ya. But I do not feel this is "automatic" and I can send a bigger message by doing other things. Sorry you feel like you have no choice.

Originally posted by NSump
Finally, exactly what "point" am I making in NOT ejecting the batter who has shown complete disrespect and told everyone how bad the call was?" Would you have as much restaint had he yelled, "That was a foot f***ing outside you idiot!" In my world they are equal.

I consider a player yelling at me much different than something no one might see by me and a couple people. Sorry, I do not look at it the same.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Apr 24th, 2004 at 03:29 PM]

[GarthB]

Macho has nothing to do with it. Drawing a line in the sand is:

1. Arguing balls and strikes...prohibited by rule.
2. Showing up the umpire to all assembled.
3. Unsportsmanlike behavior.

Three strikes: He's out of here. And no one, not even his coach, will give you grief over it.

[brian43]

i agree with garth 100%. theres nothing "macho" to it.

[sir_eldren]

Funny this topic should come up. A few weeks ago I had a game where a pitch came in just above the knees and half on the outside edge of the plate. Being the observant umpire I am, I called a strike.

The kid puts a foot out of the box and looks at his coach. His coach gives him that "Where was it?" look.
I'm just thinking to myself 'tell the truth, kid, don't get stupid." He was the offensive team's catcher, so he knows how to size up a pitch.
"It was low and off the plate, coach." The coach tells him it's okay, he didn't want that one anyway. Oh... That dumb kid.

The next pitch comes in low and off the plate. I call a strike. Isn't that where I called the last one? I gotta be consistent, right? The kid looks at me. I just give him a nod and smile. He got the point and hit a nice Texas-Leaguer on the next pitch.

Funny thing was that he was a pleasure to have behind the plate.

-Craig

[DG]

Obviously, there are some here who consider drawing a line a felony, and some consider it a misdemeanor. I stated my view earlier so I will not repeat.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by DG
Obviously, there are some here who consider drawing a line a felony, and some consider it a misdemeanor. I stated my view earlier so I will not repeat.

Yes, everybody's got an opinion, but not all opinions are equal.

The higher the level of baseball, and the higher quality of training an umpire gets, the more universal the understanding is that drawing a line on an umpire is a felony deserving of summary ejection. The pro schools teach it, the NCAA clinics teach it, most FED training teaches it, some but not all youth organizations teach it.

I've had lines drawn on me 3 times. Once in a competitive adult league; I tossed him with no fanfare and virtually no comment from anyone including the disgruntled batter. Once in a recreational adolescent league - I warned him to erase the line, he drew another one, I laughed and said OK, play, then rung him up on strike 3 on a high and away pitch. He got the message, but I had to toss his coach in the ensuing argument.

The third time as the batter started to draw the line I told him "drawing a line on an umpire is an automatic ejection - erase that line or you're done." He apologized, erased the line, and stayed in the game.

I consider the 2nd example the worst of the decisions I made.

[DG]

Originally posted by Tim C
This is the only site I know that gives Little Umpires the same posting value as guys that work real games.

Lah Me!

Please, "line in the sand" -- light the phucker up! Those that don't have no clue how to work REAL (i.e. games played by players of shaving age)) baseball.

Give me a break.

I am so tired of the "trendy, 2000's kind of umpires!" BTW Rut -- stick with basketball those guys know how to laugh at you!

I give NO VALUE to guys who work Little League . . . it is not real baseball.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Apr 24th, 2004 at 10:46 PM]

This post started over a situation that happened in low adult baseball, not LL. Why do you come here? You never have anything constructive to say.

[jicecone]

Been There , Done that. If it works for you go For it

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Tim C
This is the only site I know that gives Little Umpires the same posting value as guys that work real games.

What does this have to do with the post?

Originally posted by Tim C
Please, "line in the sand" -- light the phucker up! Those that don't have no clue how to work REAL (i.e. games played by players of shaving age)) baseball.

Give me a break.

You must have been a late bloomer? Did not reach puberty until you were in your 20s I see?

Originally posted by Tim C
I am so tired of the "trendy, 2000's kind of umpires!" BTW Rut -- stick with basketball those guys know how to laugh at you!

Some us are tired of you old fat farts that cannot run two feet behind the plate. Then complain when the coaches give you attitude. Maybe there is a reason players are drawing a line in your games. Might have some underlining meaning you are not paying attention to. Oh well, there are a lot of guys like you that are still holding on to your past.

Originally posted by Tim C
I give NO VALUE to guys who work Little League . . . it is not real baseball.

I did not realize anyone was talking about Little League. But then again, what every makes you feel better.

Peace

[Dave Hensley]

For those who give credence to authoritative references, this specific issue is addressed in the MLB Umpire Manual, to-wit:

Actions by players specifically intended to ridicule an umpire are grounds for ejection. Examples include drawing a line in the dirt to demonstrate location of a pitch or leaving equipment at the plate after striking out with less than two outs.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley
For those who give credence to authoritative references, this specific issue is addressed in the MLB Umpire Manual, to-wit:

Actions by players specifically intended to ridicule an umpire are grounds for ejection. Examples include drawing a line in the dirt to demonstrate location of a pitch or leaving equipment at the plate after striking out with less than two outs.

That is great, but NCAA or FED or even LL is not Major League baseball. This would be like me comparing what they do in the NBA and saying that all officials at levels not in the NBA should apply those rules.

I know a lot of guys that go to pro school and cannot umpire with any consistency or lose respect at the HS level. And part of the reason is because they try to take that "pro mentality" to a level that no one cares about. And I know that that mentality hurts many umpires at the NCAA and FED level.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Tim C
I would not try to evaluate me until you see me work.

I will let your volume of posts on this site in foorball, basketball and baseball speak for themseleves.

Rut, people here "get" you and who you are.

Tee

Well considering that what I have accomplished in all those sports in a short period of time, I will take that as speaking for itself. I think that speaks more than what some "internet officials" think of me on a discussion board.

See the reality is that "I know who I am." And so do those that have worked with me. One of the reasons I do not need to puff out my chest on an discussion board to accomplish anything. Hey, but we all cannot be like you.

Peace

[DG]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley
For those who give credence to authoritative references, this specific issue is addressed in the MLB Umpire Manual, to-wit:

Actions by players specifically intended to ridicule an umpire are grounds for ejection. Examples include drawing a line in the dirt to demonstrate location of a pitch or leaving equipment at the plate after striking out with less than two outs.

The MLB Umpire Manual is written for major league umpires, not LL umpires, low adult league umpires, etc. What is written don't make it right for all levels...