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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 29, 2000, 11:40pm
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Hold on a minute!

Dave wrote above:

2. Most umpires are trained to, and learn by experience to subscribe to the "path of least resistance," "go along to get along," and "don't go looking for boogers" schools of thought... technically ejectable but reasonably minor offenses go unpunished (or result in only warnings instead of ejection), strikezones and things like neighborhood plays are called according to the customs and practices that have been developed in the league, instead of "by the book," and potentially controversial calls such as obstruction and interference are only called if they are flagrantly obvious.

I don't agree with that at all. Why would anyone train an umpire to take the "path of least resistance"? Now, I'm sure that it IS being done all over the country, and maybe I've just been lucky enough to be in associations in two states that took the "high road."

Now I know there are times that you may let something slide, but usually it will be in a blowout game or something like a Summer Game that you really weren't prepared to call etc.; however, we train all of our officials to call what you see.

I cannot imagine why Bfair would even think about "not calling a balk that you know is a balk". Who cares who you are calling with. You said you were all respected FED officials, then you all have the same right on the field to call the play you see. In restrospect you said you learned, but are you calling what you know is right now, or letting things slide as you say you see other guys doing?

If your past officers want to let things go, then let them, but believe me people do notice. I know when I played ball (many years ago) I knew which umpires were ethical and which were not by the way they called.

The only way to be a good umpire is to be consistent, and if you are constantly trying to decide what "not to call" then it's going to be a long road.

I know in our area, if you don't call it right, then you won't be calling. (Now that's FED). In summer ball you see all kinds, but then in summer ball most of the umpires don't care anyway. It's really sad.

I've always called it like it should be "by the book" and I've never had any problems moving up in any level or group I've worked.

Just what I see,

Thanks
David
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2000, 01:19pm
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by David B


I know in our area, if you don't call it right, then you won't be calling. (Now that's FED).
I've always called it like it should be "by the book" and I've never had any problems moving up in any level or group I've worked.
I have been in 5 organizations which were all like Dave Hensleys. There are two possibilities for David B's organization.

1. He is extremely fortunate to be in a quality organization. He has found a rare good one. Don't ever leave. OR

2. He is one of those umpires that Dave Hensley mentioned above. The ones that swear on their mother's souls that they call by the book when something else entirely is the truth.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2000, 10:54pm
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Location: Gulf Coast of TX to Destin Fl
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Jon Bible et al

Peter........

As one who can probably say I have probably watched more Jon Bible called games than anyone on this board (100+) I can say that I did emulate him when I called baseball. I picked his brains after games 20+ years ago and found him to be a wonderfully helpful and cordial person.

I called Legion ball here on the Gulf Coast of TX when I was in college (summers), and much of my mechanics and knowhow of field presence I can attribute to Mr. Bible. I may have missed 1 or 2 BB games in the 5 years I lived in Austin while attending UT. Jon was a regular then, and was a well liked umpire then (as I am sure he is now), even by the "Wild Bunch". I can attest that his charachter is without question.

I do not know what kind of relationship Garth has with Mr. Bible.......but if Mr. Bible is the same sort of person he was 20+ years ago.......I can assure you that he would answer truthfully without his worrying about how he looked.

I only do softball now......but still relish the times when I did call the big diamond and had the opportunity to pick the brains of umpires like Mr. Bible and Mr. Crystal (another SWC Umpire in the 70's).

Joel

[Edited by Gulf Coast Blue on Dec 31st, 2000 at 07:42 AM]
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2001, 10:31am
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Smile No yellow brick road

There are two possibilities for David B's organization.

1. He is extremely fortunate to be in a quality organization. He has found a rare good one. Don't ever leave. OR

2. He is one of those umpires that Dave Hensley mentioned above. The ones that swear on their mother's souls that they call by the book when something else entirely is the truth.


I have been very fortunate. When I was in Dallas/Ft.Worth we had men who were not afraid to bite the bullet and stand up for good consistent umpiring. When I moved to MS, we have the same.

If you've been in five associations that were that bad, then it's a shame. Twenty years ago our assoc. had men who adhered to a strict set of rules and standards, and I can proudly say that in 2000/20001 I have the honor of carrying the torch.


Yes, I am very lucky. There are other assoc. in our state that meet one time a year, get assignments and go. We meet weekly, have field clinics for young and old umpires, and meeting attendance is monitored for game assignments.

Thanks
David

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2001, 04:31pm
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I just joined e-umpire. I have spent a good deal of time over the years visting and from time to time posting at another umpire board. I agree to an extent with those who counsel that we err when comparing some situations to MLB umpires. I was at the Yankees vs Orioles playoff game in which Garcia ruled Derek Jeter's ball was a homerun. Although I was in the last row of the upper deck in leftfield I had a good pair of binoculars and followed the ball all the way and while rooting for the Yankees I immediately said "that's fan interference" as I saw the rightfielder camped under the ball. I read later that Richie Garcia was quite upset when he saw the replays. Jeffrey Maier, the infamous NY kid, reached out, rather than down, and the ball rolled up his arm. The call in my mind had nothing to do whether it was a Little League World Series or a MLB playoff game.

As far as players blocking bags with their knees, I would find it difficult to call obstruction because most of these cases are in the act of fileding the throw/ Metal cleats = stupid move by defense. I recall Maury Wills had a major league firstbaseman do the same thing as he usually dove back into head-first after a healthy lead. After he sharpened his spikes aka cleats, and went in feet first it never happened again. What I might suggest is a quiet word with the defenseive coach to prevent injury.-- Jim Simms/NY
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 03, 2001, 01:23pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair
[B]In Pete Booth's last post in his thread regarding "ejections" he finished by discussing the need for uniformity among officials. Pete indicated lack of uniformity in ejecting while seemingly accepting that there is uniformity in APPLICATION of the rules. I don't necessarily agree.
He also offered a challenge to come up with another thread that could be well discussed.


BFair - just got back from vacation and have been catching-up on all the boards.

I think the main problem at least from my experience is POLITICS. I belong to 2 associations and in each one - the coaches have a say in who umpires their games. With that said - some guys merely "suck-up" to these guys (especially the more prestigious coaches) so they can get the playoff games.

The other factor and again I'm talking about the 2 particular associations I belong to is AVAILABILITY. The good umps are not necessarily the most available.

I think Peter makes the point I was trying to - in that if the game was called by the book in the first place - we all would have an equal chance of moving up - but this is reality here and we know that this is not the truth.

My recommendation is that one day we too (if we stick it out long enough) will be the "Big Doys" so to speak and perhaps then we can change things to better the associations we belong to.

Presently I do not get "to bent out of shape" if the association wants things a certain way - Hey they pay you and in Rome do as the Romans do.

Also, summer ball which is the reason I became certified in the first place is a different ballgame (no pun intended) altogether. There is a different assignor and there is more uniformity among the officials in summer ball.

Also, as Warren points out - the PRO Game is a "horse of a different color". Big business governs this and also the Players have a powerful union behind them. So IMO we really cannot compare the PRO Game to the Amateur Game.

Pete Booth
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