Balk?

[Gre144]

Quote from GB
"Faulty logic.

Forget the specific rule for a second. Pitcher's are not allowed to illegally deceive a runner, right?

Now then, if a pitcher in the set position, in contact with the rubber, could step and "throw" to home as well as step and "pitch" to home, how could a runner differentiate between the two?"




__________________
GB

Can't we use the same argument that runners should not be allowed to deceive the pitcher? The runner is advancing towards home to startle the pitcher. Whether the pitcher is throwing as a fielder or as a pitcher has no impact on the runner who has decided to run home.

[Gre144]

Still no one has answered my question. Why can't a pitcher step towards home to retire a runner who is advancing there? Assume he is on the mound in the set position and has not come set.

He can step and throw towards first,second and third but not home. Where in the Fed rule book does it say that a pitcher, while on the mound and in the set position, cannot step towards a base, to retire a runner?

[Thom Coste]

Originally posted by Gre144
Still no one has answered my question. Why can't a pitcher step towards home to retire a runner who is advancing there? Assume he is on the mound in the set position and has not come set.

He can step and throw towards first,second and third but not home. Where in the Fed rule book does it say that a pitcher, while on the mound and in the set position, cannot step towards a base, to retire a runner?

Because that would be a motion associated with delivering a pitch without meeting the prerequisite of coming to a complete stop with the ball in both hands in front of his body ... and that's a balk.

[DG]

He can step toward home to retire a runner as long as he does so in a move that is not interpreted as a balk by the umpire. That is what we are discussing, what is, and is not, a balk. The fact that that the throw home could also be considered a pitch, different rules apply than at other bases. For example, a pitcher in the set position can throw to 1B without coming set, but he can't throw home without coming set.

[jicecone]

Ok, this is a question for the history rule guru's, because I honestly dont know.

Is there any chance that when the rules discuss a throw to a base, that it excludes "home plate" as being a base in the same context? Or am I just wandering too far out of the baseline here.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Gre144
Still no one has answered my question. Why can't a pitcher step towards home to retire a runner who is advancing there? Assume he is on the mound in the set position and has not come set.

He can step and throw towards first,second and third but not home. Where in the Fed rule book does it say that a pitcher, while on the mound and in the set position, cannot step towards a base, to retire a runner?

He CAN throw home, but he must come set first. Because throwing home, while engaged with the rubber, is a PITCH. If he doesn't come set and throws home while engaged, he has balked by pitching without coming set.

If he comes to a complete stop, sees the runner breaking, and steps and throws home, it is legal. Because it is then a pitch. And the batter can then hit that ball and if not swung at will be called a ball or a strike by the umpire.

If he wants to throw home without having it be a pitch, HE MUST DISENGAGE legally by stepping backwards with his pivot foot.

You've been given the case book citation. It's the rule. How much more do we have to say?

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Gre144




Can't we use the same argument that runners should not be allowed to deceive the pitcher? The runner is advancing towards home to startle the pitcher. Whether the pitcher is throwing as a fielder or as a pitcher has no impact on the runner who has decided to run home.

No. Sometime we are confined by the rules. This is one of them.

Illegal deception by the pitcher is prohibited.

There is no illegal deception by a runner in real baseball unless you want to claim it under 9.01 and eject a couple of coaches, the runner and probably three or four others.

[Gre144]

Thanks, I understand now. However, I think the rule should be changed to allow the pitcher to to quick pitch when R3 is advancing home. This would be consistent with him being allowed to throw to first,second and third while on the mound.

greg