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Old Fri May 03, 2024, 12:21am
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Batting out of order, DH rule, and pitch count

This is a high school JV game in California between friendly rivals that ended 8-0 in favor of the visitors. I was the scorekeeper (and parent of a player) for the visitors and the home team did not provide a scorekeeper. None of what follows would've changed the outcome. However, I'm interested in these things and I want to know how the umpire and/or coaches should have handled it.

The home team batting order to start the game has this at the bottom:

8. #21, playing 2B
9. #11, DH

#16 is playing RF and they're DHing for him, he's not in the batting order.

They take the field in the top of the 1st and #11 (the listed DH) is playing second base.

In the bottom of the second inning, the home team gets to the 8th hitter in the batting order and #11 comes to bat (out of order) and strikes out. #21 follows him and also strikes out.

In the third inning, the RF #16 is subbed out on defense for #6. #6 plays RF the rest of the game but does not bat.

Later in the game #11 and #21 come to bat in the same order and strike out again. #11 played second base the whole game.

What could the visiting coach have done to appeal any of this?

Unrelated--the pitch count. The governing body has a cap of 90 pitches in a game for a pitcher at this level. The home team pitcher reached his 90th pitch during a plate appearance, then continued on for a few more hitters and got to 100 pitches. The umpire said he has nothing to do with the enforcement of the pitch count rules. Does that vary anywhere else?

Thank you for your feedback.
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Old Wed May 08, 2024, 10:11pm
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Pitch count

At least in Illinois umpires have no jurisdiction over pitch count. If an opposing coach feels there is a violation, there is a way to file a report on the state association website.
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Old Thu May 09, 2024, 07:01am
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DH rule

You did not say whether there were 9 or 10 players in the lineup. NFHS rules allow for two different types of DH. One is a "traditional" DH similar to MLB, except that the DH can bat for any defensive player (not just the pitcher).

The other is called a "Player/DH" where a player plays defense but also bats for some other defensive player. In this case there would only be 9 players in the lineup.

The PlayerDH is locked into the batting order. And can also play defense. In your example it sounds like the P/DH was batting for the right fielder. This article from South Dakota does a pretty good job explaining the NFHS DH rules. https://sdumpires.org/uploads/NFHS%20DH%20Rule.pdf
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Old Fri May 10, 2024, 12:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pzebra View Post
You did not say whether there were 9 or 10 players in the lineup. NFHS rules allow for two different types of DH. One is a "traditional" DH similar to MLB, except that the DH can bat for any defensive player (not just the pitcher).

The other is called a "Player/DH" where a player plays defense but also bats for some other defensive player. In this case there would only be 9 players in the lineup.

The PlayerDH is locked into the batting order. And can also play defense. In your example it sounds like the P/DH was batting for the right fielder. This article from South Dakota does a pretty good job explaining the NFHS DH rules. https://sdumpires.org/uploads/NFHS%20DH%20Rule.pdf
A P/DH cannot bat for the right fielder. IT allows that player to be removed as P but stay in the game as the DH for the substitute P.

Edit: In most codes a P/DH is Pitcher/DH, and that's how I read it. So my statement above is not quite correct. F9 can be a P(layer) /DH in FED. The post in red above is still incorrect. The P/DH does not bat "for some other defensive player." He bats AND plays defense, but can remain ad DH when he is replaced on defense.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Mon May 13, 2024 at 01:02pm.
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Old Mon May 13, 2024, 09:16pm
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>>A P/DH cannot bat for right fielder<<

Assuming NFHS I think he can. Rule 8-1-4

A hitter may be (not mandatory) designated for any one starting player (not just pitchers) and all subsequent substitutes for that player in the game.


and 8-1-4b:
The starting designated hitter may be any one of the starting defensive players. When used in this manner, the starting defensive player has two positions: the defensive player and the designated hitter. The role of the defensive player may be substituted for by any legal substitute.


So what am I missing?
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