New Story/ Same Ump

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
Asking a catcher is a not so subtle way of telling the umpire you don't like what he called.

Guys I wasn't telling the umpire I didn't like what he called. That is the problem. Unless I address you, I am not talking to you, our about you. I am talking to my catcher. If the pitch is outside. Which it was, and my pitcher seems to be consistently throwing there, then I will ask my catch where the pitch was. If he says outside, then I will tell him to set up inside. I am teaching kids, how to play baseball. I could care less where the strike zone is, or what consider balls and strikes. Call em where you see them, try to be consitent, and My catcher, pitcher , and I can work on throwing strikes.
If you are secure in the way that you call a game, tah me asking my catcher in the 2nd inning should even face you. If I am tlling you to your face that "THAT PITCH WAS A STRIKE. That is a different story. If you have a problem come and talk to me, and I will explain that I wasn't questioning your call.

Coach, you have the same problem that 99.99% of all coaches no matter what the sport is.

I have yet to meet a coach that will speak to a player or assistant coach about the officiating. The coach will speak loud enough for the offical to hear. The coach thinks that because he is "speaking" to his player or assistant coach he is not speaking to the official. The coach knows full well that his comments are directed toward the official and not toward his player or assistant coach.

My advice to you is to either have the intestinal fortitude to address the official directly and be prepared to take your medicine if the official gives it to you or do not say anything else.

[MD Longhorn]

I agree with the plethora of comments regarding Mattingly's behavior and the perception of it by others.

However, it's obvious this umpire holds a serious grudge. I can't imagine talking to a 13-year old that way, or putting the pressure of keeping their (in his eyes) "out-of-control" coach in check squarely on the shoulders of a child. This guy is out of line.

After the two previous encounters described on this board, if I were Blue, I'd have had a long talk with Mattingly about what's acceptable and what's not. Hopefully he would have received much of the enlightenment he's gotten from this thread a little earlier. If he still made the "Where was that pitch" comment to his catcher, I'd have called time, and spoke with the manager 1 last time. But I CERTAINLY wouldn't have used the kid as a crutch or put him in an awkward position between what to him should be 2 authority figures.

Keep the kids out of it.

[Bluefoot]

Why doesn't the coach simply phrase his question to his catcher in a manner that won't be interpreted like he's questioning the umpire's judgement of the pitches like:

"Which way is he missing?"

I've got no problem saying that he's too low, etc, if asked.

[Jerry]

Bluefoot:
And what if the kid replies, "He's not missing. It's right over the plate!"?

Jerry

The good catchers and coaches know how to get information on called "balls", where there might be a question as to whether it was low/outside/both. If it were simply "low" or simply "outside", F1 can be instructed to adjust accordingly. Most catchers with whom I deal, usually help me out . . . not the other way around. They'll quietly ask, "A little low, Blue?" or "Just missed the corner, Blue?"

Coaches would do well to learn that same technique.

[David B]

If you're dealing with a 13 yr old you might get a comment or two but education is a good thing.

Once the kid understands that he and the umpire can work together then he's on the way to becoming a much better catcher.

One of the best HS catcher's last year in our area learned through the summer of his freshman year and has been a joy to work with the last three years.

His coach is very much respected and he loves to complain by saying "what was wrong with that one blue?"

This F2 was quick to comment "outside coach" or "low coach" even if it was borderline. Then he would say did I have it right Mr. Ump??? That's my kind of catcher.

The coach was satisfied and he just might get that pitch called later in the game.

Teach em when they're young.

Thanks
David

Originally posted by Jerry
Bluefoot:
And what if the kid replies, "He's not missing. It's right over the plate!"?

Jerry

The good catchers and coaches know how to get information on called "balls", where there might be a question as to whether it was low/outside/both. If it were simply "low" or simply "outside", F1 can be instructed to adjust accordingly. Most catchers with whom I deal, usually help me out . . . not the other way around. They'll quietly ask, "A little low, Blue?" or "Just missed the corner, Blue?"

Coaches would do well to learn that same technique.

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
"When that question comes up when I've got the plate, I'll tell the catcher if he wants his manager to stay in the game don't answer that."

Sounds to me , that for you to say that puts the catcher in a bad situation too. If I have a problem with the way you are calling balls and strikes I will tell YOU. I won't use my thirteen year catcher as a pon. Again this is a "TRAINING LEAGUE." Why threaten kids man.

What's a "pon"?

Bob

[kylejt]

"What's a "pon"?"

Come on Bob, you know. That's what they call adult movies in Boston.

[MD Longhorn]

I think it has something to do with Christmas... You know - It came a pon a midnight clear, or A Pon the rooftop, reindeer paws...
Or maybe it's just a storytelling word ... Once a pon a time.

[Jerry]

I think it has more to do with the Academy Awards and Henry Fona.

"On Golen Pon".

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan


Guys I wasn't telling the umpire I didn't like what he called. That is the problem. Unless I address you, I am not talking to you, our about you. I am talking to my catcher. If the pitch is outside. Which it was, and my pitcher seems to be consistently throwing there, then I will ask my catch where the pitch was. If he says outside, then I will tell him to set up inside. I am teaching kids, how to play baseball. I could care less where the strike zone is, or what consider balls and strikes.

You say if the pitch was outside, then you'd move your catcher inside.
So let me ask.....if it was low, would you have him stand up?......
If it was high, would you have your catcher lay down?......
That certainly seems to follow the same logic of your training.....

I agree with several of the others, but I will put it in my typical indiscreet words.......what a bunch of crapola.

You indicate you've had past problems with the official, brag about finally being ejected, and tell us how inappropriate the official's actions were. You've earned the credibility level that I don't know if I can believe anything you say regarding the incident. What I do know is that your apparent knowledge of baseball is far less than you feel it is as portrayed by your actions and evidenced by your comments that you can say as you wish as long as it is not TO the official.

What I also know is that few newbie officials would have addressed the incident discriminately as opposed to merely addressing you immediately. You've tried to disguise your dislike for the official and your inappropriate action on the field by attacking an action by the umpire which might have been better handled in a different manner---assuming the reporting of that action is accurate. His error doesn't excuse yours.......... Still, I'll bet there is far more to this TOTAL SITUATION than what you report.

Finally, the catcher apparently heeded the information provided by the official. It seems your 13 year old catcher shows good jugment and knowledge, and I'd not be surprised if he's above average. You may want to have some discussions with him. He may be willing to give you some pointers.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[His High Holiness]

Mr. Mattinglyfan;

I have answers to all of your questions, FROM THE COACH'S point of view no less!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately (unless you subscribe), they are on the paid part of the site - beginning November 20 in a series of articles entitled "Manipulating the Umpire."

This series outlines new ways for smart coaches to manipulate dumb umpires. It would appear that you have not been using your superior coach's intellect to manipulate IQ challenged umpires.

The series is addressed to coaches. Hopefully, dumb umpires will recognize themselves in these scenarios and take corrective action, but I have my doubts.

Peter

[greymule]

pon = pawn

As in "Queen's Pawn Game."

By the way, I love it when a play like this occurs:

Abel on 2B, ground ball to F6, Abel runs toward 3B. F6 swipes at Abel and misses her. I call safe and the coach starts in with the she-tagged-her-on-the-whatever routine. No, she missed her, coach.

Then the coach asks F6, nice and loud, "Did you tag her, Jenna?" and Jenna says, also nice and loud, "No."

[Edited by greymule on Nov 11th, 2003 at 01:53 PM]

[Jerry]

On Golden Pawn? I don't think that's it.

[GarthB]

Another Shameless Promotion


Nahh. It's not the promotion for the paid site that's shameless.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Well I hope you guys all enjoyed giving the straight stuff to Matinglyfan... we haven't heard a word from him in nearly three weeks.

Can't blame him. He got the crap beat out of him. Deservedly so but, just the same... he's probably licking his wounds and healing.