New Story/ Same Ump

[Mattinglyfan]

Here is a new one for you. The same umpire that I have had issues with all Season finally got to toss me.

I have a twelve year old on the mound and a 13 year old behing the plate. My catcher caught a borderline pitch. I asked the Catcher" where did you catch that". He didn't answer. My pitcher was struggling struggling a little, so I called time to talk to my pitcher. My catcher came up to me and said
" Coach, the umpire just told me that if I answer you when you ask me where the pitch was , that he won't call a strike for us the rest of the game". (to 13 year old kid!)

I asked the umpire if he said that, and he said that I don't need to be questioning "his authortiy". "I said, if I was questioning your authority I would of asking you where the pitch was. " Since i am trying to get my 12 year old pitcher to figure out where the strike zone was, I decided to ask my catcher, as to not offend you...

Any Comments

[johnSandlin]

Here is my reply...somebody needed to throw the ump out for his behavior. Any umpire that works a game this way, does not need to be working any level of ball period. I do not care how good you are.

It is clear, cut, and dry that this umpire was out to make a point with you, and instead of doing that he made an ABSOLUTELY fool of himself, for conducting himself in that kind of a fashion.

I do not normally do this, but I will this time. Coach, did you give this umpire a piece of your mind before he tossed you out of the game?

[kylejt]

You put your catcher in a very bad situation. By asking that question you're, in effect, arguing balls and strikes. Or, simply put, trying to show up the umpire in public. If the umpire calls "ball", you ask you're catcher "where was that pitch?", and your catcher replys "right down the middle" then what? If you need that information, request time and talk to your battery.

When that question comes up when I've got the plate, I'll tell the catcher if he wants his manager to stay in the game don't answer that. If the manager seems insistant, I'll have a private word with him. Now, if on a changer over a manager wants to know where his pitcher is missing I'll be glad to tell him. Just not a shouted demand from the dugout.

Should the umpire have said what he said? Probably not. But that doesn't excuse the first question.

Kyle

[Mattinglyfan]

I told him that I couldn't belive that he said that, and I have very right to ask my player where he caught the pitch. He told me that if I asked my again, that I was gone. An inning later, I asked again , and he tossed me. i told him I plan to file a complaint, and that he is in the wrong league. He has no business threatening a 13 year old boy, for answering his coach. That was it. I left.

[Mattinglyfan]

"When that question comes up when I've got the plate, I'll tell the catcher if he wants his manager to stay in the game don't answer that."

Sounds to me , that for you to say that puts the catcher in a bad situation too. If I have a problem with the way you are calling balls and strikes I will tell YOU. I won't use my thirteen year catcher as a pon. Again this is a "TRAINING LEAGUE." Why threaten kids man.

[Rich]

Asking a catcher is a not so subtle way of telling the umpire you don't like what he called.

His response was not professional. However, what is the kid supposed to say? He'd better not say that the pitch was a strike or he's arguing balls and strikes. If he says it was outside, what are you going to do with that information? Tell you pitcher not to throw outside?

Most of us experienced umpires have heard it all. 99.99% of the time the coach asks not to coach but rather to argue balls and strikes without directly talking to the umpire, knowing that arguing balls and strikes directly with the umpire will get him ejected.

BTW, the best umpire response to the question is "out of the strike zone."

Rich

[Mattinglyfan]

Asking a catcher is a not so subtle way of telling the umpire you don't like what he called.

Guys I wasn't telling the umpire I didn't like what he called. That is the problem. Unless I address you, I am not talking to you, our about you. I am talking to my catcher. If the pitch is outside. Which it was, and my pitcher seems to be consistently throwing there, then I will ask my catch where the pitch was. If he says outside, then I will tell him to set up inside. I am teaching kids, how to play baseball. I could care less where the strike zone is, or what consider balls and strikes. Call em where you see them, try to be consitent, and My catcher, pitcher , and I can work on throwing strikes.
If you are secure in the way that you call a game, tah me asking my catcher in the 2nd inning should even face you. If I am tlling you to your face that "THAT PITCH WAS A STRIKE. That is a different story. If you have a problem come and talk to me, and I will explain that I wasn't questioning your call.

[kylejt]

If you ask your catcher, from the dugout for all the world to hear, "where was THAT pitch?", trust me coach, you are arguing balls and strikes. We, as umpires, are trained to deal with managers who do this. Honest, first semester Umpire 101.

Yeah right, you were just talking(shouting) to your catcher. How 'bout if I shout to my base umpire "hey Larry, do believe how long that manager let his pitcher hang out there? I'd have pulled him five batters ago! What a bonehead." Remember, I'm not talking to you.

Here's what should have happened. You should have requested time. Once granted, talk to your catcher. If he has any questions on where his pitcher is missing have HIM ask the umpire. That way nobody gets showed up, and nobody goes to the parking lot. Easy.

[Mattinglyfan]

So it was my fault and the umpire was justified in his actions

[tornado]

If a borderline pitch is called a ball, then you can figure which direction it needs to go.

Don't question your catcher about where he caught the ball.

Question him about where he's setting up.

[Jay R]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
So it was my fault and the umpire was justified in his actions

If you asked once, then I'd say there is no problem. If you ask repeatedly, then you are questioning his calls. Either way, the ump was not justified in telling your catcher not to answer. He would be justified to tell you that you can not argue balls and strikes.

[brian43]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
BTW, the best umpire response to the question is "out of the strike zone."

i love saying that. more often than not, that response puts an end to questioning balls and strikes through all methods of questioning.

[SC Ump]

First, I'm calling 'boloney'. You weren't asking because you wanted to know where the pitch was.

Second, I agree that the umpire could have definitely handled it better. If a coach is asking, "Where was that pitch?" and the cather is answer, "High", "Outside", etc. I don't have a problem. If he is answering "right down the middle" then we've got problems.

BTW, usually when the coach asks the catcher, I answer under my breath, just loud enough for the catcher to hear. Nine times out often he will echo my call, sometimes even if I add discriptors. I will say, "Way out side" and the catcher answers the coach, "Way out side". Coach, him usually don't ask no more.

As I'm typing this, I started thinking... in the future I will put "Say" on the front of my statement. Coach asks catch, "Where was that pitch?" I will quietly state to the catcher, "Say, 'Over his head.'" I got a dollar that says it will work.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
So it was my fault and the umpire was justified in his actions

Yes and no.

There are two issues here, your behavior and the umpire's behavior. If both were as you described, both were wrong.

Since you can't control anyone but yourself, let's work on yours.

Even if we are to believe you had absolutely no intention of questioning the umpire's call, if you are asking your catcher where the pitch was loud enough for the catcher to hear it, fans can hear it and at the very least you will appear to be showing up the umpire, or even worse, asking your catcher to show up the umpire.

Let's be honest there is nothing the catcher is going to tell you that will allow you do anything. Given that, you could have waited for the change of sides to talk with your catcher, privately. Instead, you chose, knowingly or not, to give the impression that you were challenging the umpire's calls. Bad form.

As I've tried to teach my kids, when you work on the person's behavior you can control, your own, you'll be suprised at the impact it has on the behavior of others.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by GarthB
As I've tried to teach my kids, when you work on the person's behavior you can control, your own, you'll be suprised at the impact it has on the behavior of others.

Excellent point for all of us to remember!