Umpire positioning does MLB really need 6

[PeteBooth]

Most Amateur Baseball in this Country is umpired using the 2 Person mechanics and IMO the PRO schools need to change the way Umpires position themselves.

Even with 6 Umpires, sinking line drives and Fair / Foul calls are being missed - Reason? IMO the positioning.

Here's what I would like to see and get your opinions on.

If you are going to have 6 umpires, why not station the the LF Ump and RF ump in right and left center respectfully.

The referees in football and basketball are positioned on the playing field and basketball Court respectfully, so why waste U7 and U9 on the Left / right field lines where they have virtually no angle and are missing the shoe string / diving catches.

In the BOSOX / A's series when the Damon collison occured it was U2 who was in position to make the call. To me that's absurd. You have 6 umpires so utilize them properly.

The PU as in a 2 person system should have ALL FAIR / FOUL calls PERIOD.

EXCEPTION: just like in a 2 person system if the ball is hit on a rope right over the first or third base bag. Other than that have the PU make ALL Fair / Foul calls.

U7/U9 would take care of all Catch / No Catch in the Outfield (if they were positioned properly) so the Field Umpires could strictly concentrate on the base runners without worrying about catch vs. no catch in the outfield.

Finally I know it's been talked about but INSTANT REPLAY should be used on those BORDER line Plays for determining Home Runs / Fan Interference. It wouldn't take that much time away from the game.

Ok what's your take on umpire positioning with 6 umpires

Pete Booth

As noted twice in the post season, the RF umpire at Yankee Stadium is nothing but a waste of space and money.

How Richie Garcia didn't see the kid reach out and touch the ball, then emphatically run to Tony Tarasco and say, "No no Tony. Don't even start". Well, why was Tarasco yelling and why was Garcia on top of him? Everybody on the field saw the interference. Davy Johnson saw it from the dugout.

The second happening was earlier this week on the ball that hit the foul pole. Shouldn't the RF umpire have chased the ball down the line a little more? If not, then why have the RF umpire since the home plate umpire has the better angle.

It was once explained to me by a current Major League umpire that the reason the OF umpires were there was to rule on catches (Kenny Lofton's against the Braves was missed) and to rule on home runs that might hit the poles (touched upon above).

Since they can't do either of those jobs, ax them. I still wonder why Little League Baseball has six umpires at the LLWS and requires four for tournaments. But that's just me.

[johnSandlin]

No disrespect gentlemen, but until the both of you and I have the MLB Umpire's resume on our side, I would not get too grumpy over whether or not MLB needs to use six umpires in the All-Star and playoff games.

Does MLB need six umpires in the playoffs and the All Star game? ABSOLUTELY! No question about it, especially now with the All-Star game determining which league will have home field advantage in the World Series.

Have there been some miss calls in the playoffs, yes no question about it. I do not think you would find anyone arguing that point. But, because of the miss calls, does that mean we start saying that six umpires is a waste of time, no we do not.

I know for a fact, that if either one of you were out there right working anyone of these LCS games, you would be happy and absolutely relieved to have six sets of eyes instead f just four sets of eyes like you have in the regular season.

Until we have their resume in our back pocket to work with, we have no room or place to be talking this kind of a topic.

Originally posted by johnSandlin
No disrespect gentlemen, but until the both of you and I have the MLB Umpire's resume on our side, I would not get too grumpy over whether or not MLB needs to use six umpires in the All-Star and playoff games.

With no disrespect John, ARE YOU NUTS? Until we have their resume in our pockets? This is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard in my life and I hear it too often.

Tom Hanks has an amazing resume of acting and comedy films and shows. But if he goes out and stumbles his way through a performance, I'm in well within my rights to say he did a bad job.

There is a mechanic in town who's been servicing the community for years. If he adds another staff member who has 10 years experience but forgets things like tools in the radiator, not replacing belts, etc., I am going to say that I could've done a better job replacing the air filter, because 1, I have replaced an air filter and 2, didn't leave a wrench in the radiator.

I can't play the piano, I've tried and know I can't, but when Billy Joel misses a note, I'll notice it and not say anything (ball/strike call). But if he completely butchers Piano Man (outfield umpires call), then I'll complain. The OF umpires have proven they are useless. If you want to add more "eyes" to the play, then go to replay. And if you like, let's start a thread talking about what should and shouldn't be allowed on replay. Maybe they'll pay attention.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by johnSandlin

Does MLB need six umpires in the playoffs and the All Star game? ABSOLUTELY! No question about it, especially now with the All-Star game determining which league will have home field advantage in the World Series.

Have there been some miss calls in the playoffs, yes no question about it. I do not think you would find anyone arguing that point. But, because of the miss calls, does that mean we start saying that six umpires is a waste of time, no we do not.

I know for a fact, that if either one of you were out there right working anyone of these LCS games, you would be happy and absolutely relieved to have six sets of eyes instead f just four sets of eyes like you have in the regular season.

John IMO you are missing the point.

Umpiring is not about how many eyes you have but whether or not you are in the proper position. For the most part, umpires get themselves in trouble because they are out of position.

I am not questioning the integrity of the umpires involved only the mechanics utilized.

Why do you think the PU has all Fair / Foul calls? Reason becasue he/she has the BEST angle of any of the umpires, that's why the PU overruled his partner to begin with (I know he shouldn't have but that's a different discussion altogether)

Also, the discussion has nothing to do with resumes and whether or not I would be happy to work the World Series or not. It's about positioning.

Pete Booth

[johnSandlin]

I am not missing the point Pete. I understand what you are saying to a point, but having more eyes does help the situation out tremedously.

For instance, in high school, college, and MLB(keep in mind this is play for the 3 or more umpire system), if you have a fair foul ball down the foul line, and you have a third base umpire, and first umpire working with you, then the call of fair/foul is to the base umpire of which ever foul line the play involves, because the ball is to the back of the base, so not all fair/foul calls are PU's call. The PU can over rule, but the original call is the base umpire's(which ever one it may involve) responsibility.

That particular base umpire is to the "read", and "react" theory of umpiring. This is the read play as it develops, react to getting to the best possible angle available, coming to a complete stop, and finally making the call, keep in mind doing all of this in a matter of seconds.

Yes positioning does make a huge difference in getting a call right, however, being COMPLETELY dead stopped, standing still is huge as well. But, having more eyes on the field is big as well.

Do not get mean wrong Pete, I understand your point, but I am just not as convinced as you are about this topic. We just see this differently.

[chris s]

Originally posted by sportsannouncing

With no disrespect John, ARE YOU NUTS? Until we have their resume in our pockets? This is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard in my life and I hear it too often.

Tom Hanks has an amazing resume of acting and comedy films and shows. But if he goes out and stumbles his way through a performance, I'm in well within my rights to say he did a bad job.

There is a mechanic in town who's been servicing the community for years. If he adds another staff member who has 10 years experience but forgets things like tools in the radiator, not replacing belts, etc., I am going to say that I could've done a better job replacing the air filter, because 1, I have replaced an air filter and 2, didn't leave a wrench in the radiator.

I can't play the piano, I've tried and know I can't, but when Billy Joel misses a note, I'll notice it and not say anything (ball/strike call). But if he completely butchers Piano Man (outfield umpires call), then I'll complain. The OF umpires have proven they are useless. If you want to add more "eyes" to the play, then go to replay. And if you like, let's start a thread talking about what should and shouldn't be allowed on replay. Maybe they'll pay attention.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
Leave a wrench in the radiator.....sorry bud.....wrenches won't fit in radiators, they may drop into a shroud/fan assembly but certainly not go down into the radiator(unless forced, then we got coolant pissing all over)......cars for 21 years, baseball for 10 and football for 3......none are even close..........

[johnSandlin]

sportsannouncing,

Might I inquire about something? Do you currently umpire? Or are you a sports announcer? You have totally taken what I said way out of context and BTW I am NOT nuts.

When you umpire, you thank God when you put on a crew with more then two people, because you know the play will be covered. Yes, as a paying customer in today's society, you have every right to lodge a complaint about the performance of somebody you saw, if you know what you are talking about.

Did you read my last reply when I gave the fair/foul example? Angel Hernandez the RF umpire you were referring to as a (I quote) "nothing but a waste of space and money." Did you see how the umpire made the call? HE WAS RIGHT ON THE FOUL LINE(like he suppose to be), STATIONARY(like he is suppose to be), EYES FOLLOWING THE BALL(like he is suppose to do), WAITED A SECOND TO SEE THE WHOLE AND REPLAY IT IN HIS MIND(like he is suppose to do), and THEN MADE HIS FINAL CALL.

Yes sportsannouncing, you have the right to complain. But, know what you are complaining about, before you start. Because you have talked MLB front office business, to umpire on the field business, to general fan business. Make a decision on a topic and stick with it.

Also, Why did you not respond to my mechanic example I used in my last reply? I am not trying to come across rude, mean, and other ways of disrespect, but I am not thrilled with your approach of voicing your displeasure on the umpiring of the LCS games so far.

[mick]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
... and BTW I am NOT nuts.

John,
That's what they all say.
mick

[johnSandlin]

Mick,

What do you mean that is what they all say? I can't imagine a fellow michigander would be selling another michigander out?

[mick]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
Mick,

What do you mean that is what they all say? I can't imagine a fellow michigander would be selling another michigander out?

Diamond games and hardwood games?
Regular abuse from fans, coaches, and players?
Constant rules study to net $8.00 an hour?
Away from family and absolutely no friends?
Doesn't sound necessarily sane to me, John.

mick

[johnSandlin]

Mick,

I completely agree with you, but normally when somebody asks me how do I put up with fans yelling at me? I just normally reply, "The fans paid their dues, let them get the money's worth."

However, in response to the approach of "sportsannouncing", my whole gripe was him calling Angel Hernandez (I qoute) "a waste of space and money." Plus, giving out false mechanic information as well.

That was what get me so disturbed with his response.

[mick]

Originally posted by johnSandlin

That was what get me so disturbed....

AHA!!!!!
You are disturbed!!!!!!
Me, too!
mick

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This remains a game.

[Rich]

It seems like Mr. SportsAnnouncing has some kind of chip on his shoulder against officials in general. I think it is hilarious when someone thinks an umpire should be fired because he misses a high profile call regardless of his experience and his background.

Richie Garcia missed an important call. So we should throw out his 25 years of experience and routinely stellar work and fire him cause he kicked one.

Don Denkinger's name is connected with a missed call in a World Series. Leon Stickle is famous in Philadelphia for a missed offsides call in a Stanley Cup Final.

It's shameful, frankly. How ML umpires and professional officials continue to function and excel in this environment where one missed call can bring a sports nation down on you is beyond me.

An Mr. SportsAnnouncing is just here to stir up trouble, I think.

Rich

[johnSandlin]

Rich,

I could not have said it better myself.