Pitcher throwing to unoccupied base

[Rich Ives]

The rules are the same for lefty/righty.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The rules are the same for lefty/righty.

Yes but the coaching strategy is different, a lot of teams/baserunner philosophy is as soon as the lefty moves, they go. So lefty looking at 1B, lifts front leg, runner takes off on first move, the lefty seeing this could swing the leg back step towards 2B and throw there since the runner went to 2B so he is making a play on the runner.

Actually thinking about this, whats interesting is for a RHP, in the younger divisions of tourney ball, where they steal 2B on seemingly every pitch when on first a righty could in theory do something similar?

So knowing a runner is going, RHP on mound.
* RHP in stretch, left leg goes up to balance point, he swings it around and throws to 2B.
- If runner didnt steal, its a balk obviously, stepping to unoccupied base.
- If the runner is going, he is making a play on the runner?

These are basically running a pick that steps to 2B with a runner at 1B, which for years I always thought would be a balk, but with the "making a play on the runner" provision, that is potentially a strategy that comes into play and honestly at the youth level, they are gonna steal it anyway, so who cares if you guess wrong and its called a balk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Yeah so tell a lefty, bring leg straight up, if they break on your first movement, then swing the leg around and throw to 2B and that is legal? If they dont move just continue the pick to 1B?

Originally Posted by parrothead

Actually thinking about this, whats interesting is for a RHP, in the younger divisions of tourney ball, where they steal 2B on seemingly every pitch when on first a righty could in theory do something similar?

So knowing a runner is going, RHP on mound.
* RHP in stretch, left leg goes up to balance point, he swings it around and throws to 2B.
- If runner didnt steal, its a balk obviously, stepping to unoccupied base.
- If the runner is going, he is making a play on the runner?

You're not the first person to think of this. It doesn't work very well in practice.

These are basically running a pick that steps to 2B with a runner at 1B, which for years I always thought would be a balk,

You're welcome.

[john5396]

The risk in coaching a lefty to do as you suggest is that the pitcher will balk by not completing the motion in a continuous motion. The safer play is to just continue with the called pickoff to first and count on the relay getting to 2B in time.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Yes but the coaching strategy is different, a lot of teams/baserunner philosophy is as soon as the lefty moves, they go.

That's stupid. Really stupid.

[parrothead]

Well on a straight steal a lot of times, the rule of thumb is "no jump no go" and with a lefty waiting to see if they go home a lot of times results in bad jumps, which is why some teams steal with a lefty is on first movement and you see this all the way up to the bigs, where they just go when P lifts his leg either hoping to guess right or hoping to beat the exchange from pick to 1B to SS.

As for the risk of a balk, the one area I would use it is in youth ages where they are stealing, like 9U-11U travel, where the catchers rarely throw out the runners and the runners go on every pitch from 1-2. So its pretty much a given if they are gonna go, and if by some miracle they dont go and you balk? Oh well, he was likely gonna steal anyway.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Well on a straight steal a lot of times, the rule of thumb is "no jump no go" and with a lefty waiting to see if they go home a lot of times results in bad jumps, which is why some teams steal with a lefty is on first movement and you see this all the way up to the bigs, where they just go when P lifts his leg either hoping to guess right or hoping to beat the exchange from pick to 1B to SS.

As for the risk of a balk, the one area I would use it is in youth ages where they are stealing, like 9U-11U travel, where the catchers rarely throw out the runners and the runners go on every pitch from 1-2. So its pretty much a given if they are gonna go, and if by some miracle they dont go and you balk? Oh well, he was likely gonna steal anyway.

If they know you are gong to go on first move you'll get picked off every time.

[SNIPERBBB]

Are you sure you are not confusing righty pitcher with a left? Righty with a runner on first, you go on a straight steal with the left foot moving. Lefty you have to wait till the right foot goes toward the plate or you are dead, dead, dead.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Are you sure you are not confusing righty pitcher with a left? Righty with a runner on first, you go on a straight steal with the left foot moving. Lefty you have to wait till the right foot goes toward the plate or you are dead, dead, dead.

Righty can step to 1B also.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Are you sure you are not confusing righty pitcher with a left? Righty with a runner on first, you go on a straight steal with the left foot moving. Lefty you have to wait till the right foot goes toward the plate or you are dead, dead, dead.

You are not dead because the majority of lefties are pre-determined not reading the runner because so much of what they are doing are "called", called picks, called pitches etc and so often they will not divert from that, but you need to have some feel for what kind of pitcher this lefty is or a very common first move is after the P picks over.

* If he is a "reader" then he is not someone you would likely go first movement with as he lifts his leg not knowing whether he will go home or to 1st and reads the runner. If he is a reader you can take shorter leads, jab step a bit and force him to make many more throws over and get his focus off the hitter, which is why some coaches dont like their lefites to read.

The other HUGE component to the first move steal is who the 1B is, because in order to get that runner out, still takes a somewhat timely glove to hand exchange, clear a lane and make a good throw. If teams have a lefty pitcher with a RH slow moving not great arm 1B? Thats first move all day long.

We have a lefty pitcher, and pretty much the standard move is 1st movement steal, so we are usually very cautious about who is playing 1B when our lefty is on the bump. We actually work guys out who can make that specific exchange and throw.