Fed question#2, "it shall be called a strike"

[Little Jimmy]

Local meeting discussion again. Fed 7-3-1 Penalty, Effects 2. Basically the batter steps out of box and at the same time the pitcher delivers the ball. Fed says "it shall be called a strike". Does that trump an illegal pitch? Does it trump the batter hit by the pitch? This was discussed here somewhere in the last year or two, but I can't find any link.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Local meeting discussion again. Fed 7-3-1 Penalty, Effects 2. Basically the batter steps out of box and at the same time the pitcher delivers the ball. Fed says "it shall be called a strike". Does that trump an illegal pitch? Does it trump the batter hit by the pitch? This was discussed here somewhere in the last year or two, but I can't find any link.

Does not trump an IP committed before release. I think it trumps all else as it says "shall", not "may" or anything about ITUJ.

[Little Jimmy]

I do now see the words "the pitcher legally delivers the ball". in 7-3-1 Penalty, Effects 2 Still wonder about batter hit by pitch in this scenario.

[EsqUmp]

Work backwards. Call the strike because you "shall" call it. Then, if the batter has not reached 1st base (obviously not) and all other runners haven't advanced one base, enforce the illegal pitch.

In reality, I would just enforce the penalty for the illegal pitch, unless somehow the offense may take the result of the play (say on R1's steal, F2 throws the ball into the outfield allowing R1 to score).

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

I do now see the words "the pitcher legally delivers the ball". in 7-3-1 Penalty, Effects 2 Still wonder about batter hit by pitch in this scenario.

As I read it, the pitch is a strike. It can hit her, it can go over the backstop. The pitch is a strike.

[MD Longhorn]

No, it's not an illegal pitch or a HBP... it's a strike. Simple.

(The reasoning here is that the batter stepping out could have caused the pitcher to misthrow - causing the IP or HBP... the rule relieves us from having to form any judgement on whether the stepping out did or did not cause that... since it COULD have, it did. Call the strike.)

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Jake26

As I read it, the pitch is a strike. It can hit her, it can go over the backstop. The pitch is a strike.

What if the illegal pitch hits her? Rule doesn't come into play and award first base or the illegal pitch?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No, it's not an illegal pitch or a HBP... it's a strike. Simple.

(The reasoning here is that the batter stepping out could have caused the pitcher to misthrow - causing the IP or HBP... the rule relieves us from having to form any judgement on whether the stepping out did or did not cause that... since it COULD have, it did. Call the strike.)

What about "the pitcher legally delivers the ball"?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

What if the illegal pitch hits her? Rule doesn't come into play and award first base or the illegal pitch?

Lets break it down.
7-3-1-eff2
lf the pitcher stops or hesitates in her delivery as a result ol the batter stepping out of the box or holding up her hand to request time, it shall not be an illegal pitch.
If the pitcher actually releases the ball it can not be called an Illegal pitch ergo it is a legal pitch.

However, if the batter steps out of the box or holds up her hand to request time and the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.
Pretty simple pitch is legal^^^ any ball released in this situation is a strike no matter what. With that said if a ball does hit the batter call it a dead ball strike

If a pitch is not delivered, a rule has been violated by both the batter and the pitcher. The umpire shall call time, declare "no'pitch" and begin play anew.
If the pitcher fails to throw in this situation kill the play "No'pitch"

lf the umpire judges the batter's action to be a deliberate attempt to create an illegal pitch, the umpire will penalize according to 3-6-9.
(3-6-9 Team personnel shall not call "time" 0r use any command or commit any act for the purpose of causing an illegal pitch.)--Penalty-- PENALTY: (Arts. 2 through 10) The umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender 0n that team shall be restricted to the dugout/bench lot the remainder ol the game.(Arts. 8, 9, 10) For coach' es who violate, depending on the severity of the act, the umpire may issue a warning, restrict the offender to bench/dugout for the remainder of the game or eject the offender..

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Lets break it down.
7-3-1-eff2
lt the pitcher stops or hesitates in her delivery as a result ol the batter stepping out of the box or holding up her hand to request time, it shall not be an illegal pitch.
If the pitcher actually releases the ball it can not be called an Illegal pitch ergo it is a legal pitch.

I don't think this is right. If the action of the batter causes the illegal pitch, then it shall not be an illegal pitch. That doesn't mean it's a legal pitch. If the pitcher stops her delivery, you're in the part about calling no pitch. But what if she does exactly what she's taught in this situation and rockets the ball home. Unfortunately her control is bad and she hits the batter and even more unfortunately, her drag foot was 18 inches off the ground.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't think this is right. If the action of the batter causes the illegal pitch, then it shall not be an illegal pitch. That doesn't mean it's a legal pitch. If the pitcher stops her delivery, you're in the part about calling no pitch. But what if she does exactly what she's taught in this situation and rockets the ball home. Unfortunately her control is bad and she hits the batter and even more unfortunately, her drag foot was 18 inches off the ground.

go to the next paragraph

However, if the batter steps out of the box or holds up her hand to request time and the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.
Pretty simple pitch is legal^^^ any ball released in this situation is a strike no matter what. With that said if a ball does hit the batter call it a dead ball strike

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

go to the next paragraph

However, if the batter steps out of the box or holds up her hand to request time and the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live.
Pretty simple pitch is legal^^^ any ball released in this situation is a strike no matter what. With that said if a ball does hit the batter call it a dead ball strike

I don't think you've quite grasped my point so I'm not really sure whether you're trying to tell me I'm wrong or just beating on a strawman. Perhaps you could restate what you think I'm asking before responding to make sure we're on the same page.
Again the rule reads: the pitcher legally delivers the ball,
Well what if the pitcher tosses it in overhand? Still a strike?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't think this is right. If the action of the batter causes the illegal pitch, then it shall not be an illegal pitch. That doesn't mean it's a legal pitch.

Yes it does. There's no middle ground between legal pitch and illegal pitch. If it's not illegal, and it's a pitch - it's a legal pitch.

This is simple, guys - you're making it harder than it is. Don't lawyerize this one.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Well what if the pitcher tosses it in overhand? Still a strike?

Call us when that happens. Seriously. No need to overanalyze this. The actions of the batter have caused (by rule) any pitching of the ball to be legal. And a strike. If we're pitching on Mars and looking at TWP's - fine ... yes... if the pitcher is starting a normal delivery and the batter steps out, and the pitcher for whatever reason finishes the delivery without stopping and somehow goes overhand ... it's a legal pitch and a strike.

But seriously?

[shagpal]

howz about a pitch into the dirt. D3K? it's a strike by rule!

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Call us when that happens. Seriously. No need to overanalyze this. The actions of the batter have caused (by rule) any pitching of the ball to be legal. And a strike. If we're pitching on Mars and looking at TWP's - fine ... yes... if the pitcher is starting a normal delivery and the batter steps out, and the pitcher for whatever reason finishes the delivery without stopping and somehow goes overhand ... it's a legal pitch and a strike.

But seriously?