Quick one.... Dead ball foul and untimed down

[TussAgee11]

Got this one thrown at me - searched the forum but couldn't find anything similar.

We'll go with NCAA, although I'm interested if FED is different.

4th quarter. Team A punts. On the return, A facemasks B. Clock runs out on the down. After the down, there USC on each team.

Do we offest the USC, enforce facemask, and play an untimed down?

[Welpe]

I will give you the Fed answer since I don't know the NCAA one (though I imagine it is the same).

You enforce the facemask first since it is a live ball foul (5 or 15 yards from the end of the run). After that, march off each USC in the order that the fouls were committed (this is important in case the penalty for one of the USC fouls ends up being half the distance to the goal), set the chains and play an untimed down for the live ball foul.

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I will give you the Fed answer since I don't know the NCAA one (though I imagine it is the same).

You enforce the facemask first since it is a live ball foul (5 or 15 yards from the end of the run). After that, march off each USC in the order that the fouls were committed (this is important in case the penalty for one of the USC fouls ends up being half the distance to the goal), set the chains and play an untimed down for the live ball foul.

Sounds good to me. I assume time for the 4th quarter ran out during the play.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Unless I'm mistaken, the two USCs will offset in NCAA since the second one occurred before the first one was 'completed.' But there will be an untimed down for the face mask foul.

[Robert Goodman]

If the penalty for the live ball foul is declined, is there still an untimed down in either code?

[Texas Aggie]

Under any circumstance, the USC fouls offset. See 10.1.5. Technically, B has the option to accept or decline the penalty, and if they decline, the game is over or we go to OT. If they accept, the penalty is enforced and an untimed down is played.

From a practical standpoint, unless Team B is down by 8 or less to Team A (or the game is tied), the penalty will be declined and the game will be over.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If the penalty for the live ball foul is declined, is there still an untimed down in either code?

Not in NF. There must be an accepted penalty to extend the period. There are a few exceptions such as dead ball fouls, etc.

[ajmc]

From an NFHS perspective it would seem that the facemask foul by the defense, if acepted, would require an untimed down. As Dead Ball fouls do not "offset" under the NFHS code, they would be applied in the order of occurrence, and if that could not be determined, they would be enforced so that the yardage portion of the penalties cancelled each other out.

There's always the caution about situations where "half the distance" considerations come into play, in which case, unless there was a really obvious separation between the two fouls, the sequence would be assessed so that the yardage portions of the penalties cancelled each other out.

The Receiving team would get an untimed down, 15 yards in advance of the end of the kickoff return.