3 seconds question

[bas2456]

Art. 1. A player shall not be permitted to have any part of his or her body
remain in the three-second lane for more than three consecutive seconds
while the ball is in control of that player’s team in his or her front court.

This is the NCAA rule for the 3 second violation. I'm assuming that a player who is in possession of the ball can also be called for 3 seconds.

Is this the same in NFHS?

[Adam]

Yes, that's why there's a provision for suspending the count when the player is driving to the basket. IOW, if A1 catches the ball after being in there for 2 seconds, and immediately drives to the basket; you suspend the count. If, however, he stops driving and picks up his dribble, looking for someone to pass to, you start the count where you suspended it.

[bas2456]

So would it be correct to say that if A1 catches the ball at the high post with one foot in the lane, stands for two seconds, then starts a drive, staying in the lane the whole time, then picks up his dribble while still in the lane, that a 3 second count would be suspended when he starts his drive and restarted when he stops? This is similar to the 5 second closely-guarded violation, no?

Does that make sense?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

So would it be correct to say that if A1 catches the ball at the high post with one foot in the lane, stands for two seconds, then starts a drive, staying in the lane the whole time, then picks up his dribble while still in the lane, that a 3 second count would be suspended when he starts his drive and restarted when he stops? This is similar to the 5 second closely-guarded violation, no?

Does that make sense?

You're correct in red, but not in blue. You never suspend a 5 second closely guarded. You'll either continue counting or terminate and start over. Just because a player is advancing with the ball does not mean a 5 second count should be stopped.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, that's why there's a provision for suspending the count when the player is driving to the basket. IOW, if A1 catches the ball after being in there for 2 seconds, and immediately drives to the basket; you suspend the count. If, however, he stops driving and picks up his dribble, looking for someone to pass to, you start the count where you suspended it.

Really?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Really?

yes, it's a suspended count, not terminated. It doesn't terminate unless he shoots or gets out of the lane.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

yes, it's a suspended count, not terminated. It doesn't terminate unless he shoots or gets out of the lane.

reference please?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by smokeeater

reference please?

9-7-3

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

reference please?

The word suspended is not in here but:

NCAA Rule 9 Section 9. Three-Second Rule
Art. 2. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the three-second lane for less than three seconds, dribbles or moves in immediately to try for field goal.
a. The player shall not pass the ball instead of trying for goal.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, that's why there's a provision for suspending the count when the player is driving to the basket. IOW, if A1 catches the ball after being in there for 2 seconds, and immediately drives to the basket; you suspend the count. If, however, he stops driving and picks up his dribble, looking for someone to pass to, you start the count where you suspended it.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It means keep the count going, but don't call the violation unless / until there's not a try (or an attempt to work open for a try) by the player in the lane.

These are two slightly different interpretations. Let's say the player has been in the lane for 1.5 seconds before he receives the ball. He then catches the ball, drop steps into the center of the lane using one power dribble (using another 1.5 seconds). Finally, seeing he will not be able to get a shot off, kicks the ball to the wing and steps out of the lane (this action takes another 1.4 seconds).

According to Shaqs interpretation, this would NOT be a 3-second violation since the count was only at 1.5 seconds, the count was stopped for 1.5 seconds and then picked up for another 1.4 seconds. Only 2.9 seconds in the lane hence no violation -- IF using a suspended count.

According to Bob's interpretation, the player would have been in the lane for nearly 4.5 seconds AND did not shoot the ball. Therefore, a violation would result.

I am more inclined to go with Bob's interpretation on this one -- it also seems to be more consistent with the NCAA's rule book (not that it matters at all in terms of how an NFHS ruling should be made). I will give the player a shot at making his move after he has been in there for a short while, but if he piddles around and then kicks the ball out to the perimeter, I very well may call it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

I don't think there's such a thing as a suspended count in any rule set of basketball. You are reading too much into it.

Ciao

If this is what you mean....

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

According to Bob's interpretation, the player would have been in the lane for nearly 4.5 seconds AND did not shoot the ball. Therefore, a violation would result.

Then I agree. "Suspend" is the wrong word, I suppose. Bob's interpretation (as interpreted by CMHCoachNRef) is how I generally call this.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Then I agree. "Suspend" is the wrong word, I suppose. Bob's interpretation (as interpreted by CMHCoachNRef) is how I generally call this.

The return of...always listen to bob.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The return of...always listen to bob.

I was so disturbed when he said not to listen to Bob. It's nice to have a return to normalcy.

[gslefeb]

If the player post up for 2 secs, drives to the basket for 1.5 secs, pass the ball and IMMEDIATELY gets out of the lane. I have no call. Therefore, it is like a suspended count.

But if they repost or slowly move out - then I'll call the violation, this is like Bob's post.

I think my point is it important what they do after they have stopped their drive to the basket, if they take time to pass or are slow to get out of the lane OR do they immediately pass and get out of the lane.

[SmokeEater]

That's why there is no visible count for this violation. It allows you the option to "delay" the whistle to see the whole play and "judge" whether to make the call or not. Suspend = delayed whistle IMO