Illegal Pitch ?

[Gmoore]

NFHS--
Pitcher has ball in glove standing behind the pitchers plate, catcher is in position and gives the pitcher the signal, Pitcher then steps onto pitchers plate with hands separated looks towards catcher brings hands togather and delivers the pitch legal?

I told the coach this was legal because the pitcher in my mind had met all requirements even though she took the pitch signal while off the pitchers plate. Thoughts?

Thanks

[RKBUmp]

Pitcher can take the signal anywhere they like, rule simply says after taking position with the hands separated they must simulate taking a signal. Basically keep hands apart for a moment after stepping on.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Pitcher can take the signal anywhere they like, rule simply says after taking position with the hands separated they must simulate taking a signal. Basically keep hands apart for a moment after stepping on.

We actually talked about this at our meeting Sunday. The ruling we were told to use was exactly that.

The rule is clear,

a) she must assume a position on the pitchers plate with the shoulders in line with first and third base and the hands separated.

b) while in this position she must take a sign (or simulate taking a sign).

Simulate taking a sign is the key part of the rule. As long as she is doing something such as pausing before before bringing the hands together, looking at the catcher, or nodding at the catcher, she is simulating taking a sign, which meets the requirements of the rule.

No sign actually has to be given by the catcher.

This is covered in casebook 6-1-1 situation e (letter c).

[CecilOne]

But a seemingly endless question, as in the "endless" topic.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

We actually talked about this at our meeting Sunday. The ruling we were told to use was exactly that.

The rule is clear,

a) she must assume a position on the pitchers plate with the shoulders in line with first and third base and the hands separated.

b) while in this position she must take a sign (or simulate taking a sign).

Simulate taking a sign is the key part of the rule. As long as she is doing something such as pausing before before bringing the hands together, looking at the catcher, or nodding at the catcher, she is simulating taking a sign, which meets the requirements of the rule.

No sign actually has to be given by the catcher.

This is covered in casebook 6-1-1 situation e (letter c).

So, can you tell me exactly what to look for to determine the difference between simulating taking a signal and hesitating prior to the pitch?

There is nothing "key" about it. The purpose of the rule was to make the pitcher hesitate enough to give the batter an indication the pitcher was in a position and prepared to pitch. Any, and I mean ANY, stretch of the rule or application is OOO.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The purpose of the rule was to make the pitcher hesitate enough to give the batter an indication the pitcher was in a position and prepared to pitch.

If I had a nickel, even a penny, for every time I wished the rule was changed to that; .... .... ....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If I had a nickel, even a penny, for every time I wished the rule was changed to that; .... .... ....

This is one of those things that if you try to change, the self-proclaimed "traditionalists" would go crazy, although the present pitch prelim is not what it used to be.

1936: Position of the Pitcher: (a) Preliminary to pitcher, the pitcher shall take his position facing the batsman, with both feet squarely on the ground and both feet on top of the pitcher's plate. The ball shall be held in both hands, in front of the body.
One Foot in Contact with Pitcher's Plate When Delivering Ball
(b) In the act of delivering the ball to the batsman he must keep one foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and shall not take more than one step forward until the ball has actually left his hand.
(c) The pitch shall begin when one hand is taken off the ball and that hand shall not again touch the ball before it is deliver to the batsman
(d) A wind-up may consist of not more than one upwards in front and over, or one downward and backward swing of the pitcher arm.
(e) The ball shall be delivered on the first forward swing of the pitching arm.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is one of those things that if you try to change, the self-proclaimed "traditionalists" would go crazy, although the present pitch prelim is not what it used to be.

1936: Position of the Pitcher: (a) Preliminary to pitcher, the pitcher shall take his position facing the batsman, with both feet squarely on the ground and both feet on top of the pitcher's plate. The ball shall be held in both hands, in front of the body.
One Foot in Contact with Pitcher's Plate When Delivering Ball
(b) In the act of delivering the ball to the batsman he must keep one foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and shall not take more than one step forward until the ball has actually left his hand.
(c) The pitch shall begin when one hand is taken off the ball and that hand shall not again touch the ball before it is deliver to the batsman
(d) A wind-up may consist of not more than one upwards in front and over, or one downward and backward swing of the pitcher arm.
(e) The ball shall be delivered on the first forward swing of the pitching arm.

Sometimes I forget how old you are!

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, can you tell me exactly what to look for to determine the difference between simulating taking a signal and hesitating prior to the pitch?

There is nothing "key" about it. The purpose of the rule was to make the pitcher hesitate enough to give the batter an indication the pitcher was in a position and prepared to pitch. Any, and I mean ANY, stretch of the rule or application is OOO.

The hesitation before pitching is the simulation of taking the sign. No other action is needed. The point I was making is that the pitcher can not step onto the pitchers plate and immediately begin the pitching motion. There must be some sort of pause, which acts as the simulation of taking the sign, which by rule is allowable.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The hesitation before pitching is the simulation of taking the sign. No other action is needed. The point I was making is that the pitcher can not step onto the pitchers plate and immediately begin the pitching motion. There must be some sort of pause, which acts as the simulation of taking the sign, which by rule is allowable.

Yeah, pretty much what I said.

You need to forget the reference to the catcher or plate area or even a signal or similar language when discussing the preliminary actions of a pitcher. The only word a clinician needs is hesitation.

The pitcher can step on the PP and never look at the catcher or in the direction of the plate prior to placing the hands together.

The rule is a poor representation of what is being requested of the pitcher prior to beginning their motion to pitch. And that is what causes these "discussions" that shouldn't last more than 30 seconds especially among umpires.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The hesitation before pitching is the simulation of taking the sign. No other action is needed. The point I was making is that the pitcher can not step onto the pitchers plate and immediately begin the pitching motion. There must be some sort of pause, which acts as the simulation of taking the sign, which by rule is allowable.

If that was your point, you made it quite poorly. You said she had to do something (nod at the catcher was one of your examples) to make it look like she was taking a sign. Kind of the opposite of what Irish said.