Just one of those nights.

[chapmaja]

I had one of those nights today. JV DH, on bases first game, plate the second.

3rd inning of game 1, visiting team is hammering the home team. Home team pitcher steps on with the hands apart, brings the hands together, separates the hands, brings them back together, then pitches. I call her for an illegal pitch. (I had warned her earlier, but apparently she didn't understand the warning. I explain to her what is called and she really has no clue, so the coach comes out and I explain it to the coach. Finally the pitcher understands what is going on, and corrects the action, but starts something illegal on subsequent pitches (more on that later). As soon as we finally get the pitcher understanding what she is doing, the visiting coach says I want a courtesy runner for my catcher. He comes the CR, who is wearing a nose ring (which I had asked her to take out before the game when she handed me a bat to check. Now we have a warning for the nose ring, to the team. The plate ump, catcher, and batter are all laughing because everything is going on.

Finally we get back underway with the nose ring out, and the pitcher getting the first part of the motion correct, but now she brings the hands together and separates them almost instantly. I finally say I'm just not going to call it and will tell the coach, since it was a 15 run mercy at the end of that inning anyway.

The second game went ok with me at that plate except for those dreaded words from the catchers "this is my first time catching" Only one foul hit the face mask (off the catcher) and only a couple missed pitches hit unprotected areas.

It also didn't help that the game time temp for game 2 was 42 degrees with 15 Mph winds.

Final combined score. 6 innings played total, visiting team 36, home team 6 (5 of which came in the top of the third (teams switch home and away designations for the second game of a DH).

Long cold night.

[LIUmp]

As a BU, why are you calling the hands violation?? That should be your partner's call. Not yours. ESPECIALLY in a 15 run game.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

As a BU, why are you calling the hands violation?? That should be your partner's call. Not yours. ESPECIALLY in a 15 run game.

Per the association meeting Sunday evening, BOTH umpires should be looking for illegal pitches, and both can call illegal pitches. I will defer to them, and the fact the association is run by college umpires with substantial high school experience as well over you telling me it is not my call. Sorry.

[LIUmp]

Of course both umpires CAN call it...the point is, why isn't your partner and why ARE you? Why, in a 15 run rule type game, are YOU looking to call this in the third inning? You mean the entire game she hadn't done it, and you or your partner hadn't discussed it up until this point? And now YOU are calling it? Seems OOO.

By the way...don't care who is running your association. (As of your previous illegal bat post, I didn't think you HAD an association). What they say is correct. Both umpires can call any illegal pitch they see. My question is why are you (the BU) calling THAT type of illegal pitch?

Seems like you're 2 for 2 with partners this year. Guess you're not working with any of those "college umpires with substantial high school experience".

You're talking a JV game that has reached a run rule and you as the BU are calling a hands violation as an illegal pitch. You yourself admitted that you didn't call this until the third inning, when mercy had basically been reached. I'm willing to bet half the girls at the JV level are in some way illegal. So, in this situation you presented, if I were your partner, I'd not be too happy with you.

If you care to know my credentials, I'm a college umpire with substantial high school experience, and my county's high school rules interpreter. So I'm not talking out of my rear here. But blow me off if you want to. If you have any doubts, I'd tell your situation to one of your "college umpires with substantial high school experience" and see what they think.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Per the association meeting Sunday evening, BOTH umpires should be looking for illegal pitches, and both can call illegal pitches. I will defer to them, and the fact the association is run by college umpires with substantial high school experience as well over you telling me it is not my call. Sorry.

To clarify, I'm not saying to "defer to me" over your association heads. But I bet if you ask them, they'd say the same thing I am saying. This is a call that SHOULD be made by the PU. If he/she is not, I'm questioning why they saw it and chose to ignore it - and in a 15 run game, in the third inning, I'm not "looking" for this, unless it's obvious; and then I go back to asking why my partner isn't making the call. You mentioned that "you warned her earlier in the game" - that's not your job either. An IP is an IP, not a warning. You either call it or you don't. And your partner should spend less time laughing about the girl wearing jewelry and more time being on the same page with you.

I'm only trying to help you.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Per the association meeting Sunday evening, BOTH umpires should be looking for illegal pitches, and both can call illegal pitches. I will defer to them, and the fact the association is run by college umpires with substantial high school experience as well over you telling me it is not my call. Sorry.

Leave the hands to the plate umpire. As the BU you have enough to look for.

[EsqUmp]

Another reason why we shouldn't be addressing players. The pitcher doesn't know what you're talking about. The jewelry-wearing player didn't listen.

BRING IT TO THE COACH'S ATTENTION AND LET THE COACH ADDRESS IT. IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO COACH PLAYERS OR ORDER THEM TO DO THINGS.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Another reason why we shouldn't be addressing players. The pitcher doesn't know what you're talking about. The jewelry-wearing player didn't listen.

BRING IT TO THE COACH'S ATTENTION AND LET THE COACH ADDRESS IT. IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO COACH PLAYERS OR ORDER THEM TO DO THINGS.

The jewelry wearing player was brought to the attention of the coach, and the coach thought she had taken it out. It was also brought up at the coaches meeting as well because she was one of the team captains.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Another reason why we shouldn't be addressing players. The pitcher doesn't know what you're talking about. The jewelry-wearing player didn't listen.

BRING IT TO THE COACH'S ATTENTION AND LET THE COACH ADDRESS IT. IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO COACH PLAYERS OR ORDER THEM TO DO THINGS.

NFHS 3-6-16 Penalty: "If minor, the umpire may warn the offender and eject if the offense is repeated."

NFHS 6-4-4 Penalty: "The umpire shall warn a pitcher who delivers a pitch with excessive speed."

NFHS 8-1-1d Effects: "Otherwise, the coach or captain of the team at bat, after being informed by the plate umpire of the obstruction..."

NFHS Case Play 1.5.3B Ruling: "The umpire shall inform the on-deck batter that she is limited to two bats..."

NFHS Case Play 1.6.1B Ruling: "The umpire shall instruct the appropriate individual to secure a legal batting helmet..."

NFHS Case Play 1.6.2B Ruling: "In (b) and (c), the umpire informs the player that she is not to remove her helmet during a live ball..."

NFHS Case Play 1.8.4A Ruling: "The umpire should inform the defensive players that they are subject to obstruction if they continue to discard their face protection..."

NFHS Case Play 3.2.12B Ruling: "The umpire will instruct B1 that she must remove the ring or she will not be permitted to play."

I could go on and on. The fact is, NFHS instructs umpires to talk to players when necessary. True, it's better to let coaches deal with infractions, but to say it's not our responsibility to order players to do things is not accurate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Another reason why we shouldn't be addressing players.

This is a very "youth-league" point of view. High school age, we should be addressing the player.

The pitcher doesn't know what you're talking about. The jewelry-wearing player didn't listen.

Not our problem that they don't know what we're talking about or don't listen - although with jewelry I'd tell both player and coach.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

BRING IT TO THE COACH'S ATTENTION AND LET THE COACH ADDRESS IT. IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO COACH PLAYERS OR ORDER THEM TO DO THINGS.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And, IMO, anyone who blows off an observed violation (and I'm not talking about a guess) because that "isn't my call" or the perceived assignment of areas or bases isn't doing their job.

DITTO to both, a precedent.

How many more times do we have to say that especially in HS/MS; we should not be telling players to do anything; and over and over again, the proper jewelry statement is "s/he can't play with that" or "s/he forgot the jewelry" NOT "take it off" or "remove it"?

And yes, Manny, your cases are well stated by you, but are improperly worded and "inform the player" must be through the coach. None of them say anything about directly to the player.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Leave the hands to the plate umpire. As the BU you have enough to look for.

( You can blow off this advice....but I have some letters affiliated with my name, if that is what you are looking for as far as credibility)

You know, the PU cannot always see whether the pitch is in contact with the PP when she starts playing with the glove or ball and it is quite possible that what the PU thinks is happening behind the PP is actually occurring while in contact with the PP and an IP.

And, IMO, anyone who blows off an observed violation (and I'm not talking about a guess) because that "isn't my call" or the perceived assignment of areas or bases isn't doing their job.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You know, the PU cannot always see whether the pitch is in contact with the PP when she starts playing with the glove or ball and it is quite possible that what the PU thinks is happening behind the PP is actually occurring while in contact with the PP and an IP.

And, IMO, anyone who blows off an observed violation (and I'm not talking about a guess) because that "isn't my call" or the perceived assignment of areas or bases isn't doing their job.

I guess my advice was too concrete. I am not saying don't call it. It would just have to really jump out at me before I did. ( Things like calling a runner out for leaving early form the plate in a 2 or 3 man system)