Communication to get call straight

[just another ref]

Last night, boys varsity, last minute of a close game. Visitors make a steal and wind up with a 2 on none. B1 lays it up and as ball is on the rim A1 comes flying in and smacks the board. (the classic we're gonna lose now but look how high I can jump thing) Partner was lead, kinda right beside the play, he whistles and emphatically signals basket good. I blew my whistle to get his attention and called a quick huddle. "What did you call?" "Goaltending." "He didn't touch the ball." "Ball had already hit the board." "If he didn't touch the ball, it can't be goaltending." Well, it's a tech, anyway." He shrugged. I thought, uh-oh, he thinks, goaltending, bucket good, technical, close enough. I said, "Technical is what it is, or nothing. It's your call." He went over and huddled with home coach. I saw him gesture in my direction, so I think a part of his explanation was "cuz he said so." Home coach yelled across at me, "Does the basket count?" I shook my head no. Visiting coach meanwhile had a pained expression,
"What....what is the deal?" Partner simply said, "Technical foul." Home coach added, "You're getting the best of the deal." The ironic thing is that I think both coaches were happier with the wrong call than the right call. It turned out to be a non-issue. B missed both t shots, then inbounded, got fouled, and made both.

My question is, when I told partner it can't be goaltending, if he had refused to change the call, there would have been nothing further for me to do, right?

I was already mentally practicing saying, with a straight face, "He called goaltending, coach."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

My question is, when I told partner it can't be goaltending, if he had refused to change the call, there would have been nothing further for me to do, right?

Who is the Referee? If you are the Referee you could change the call or make the proper call if you are in that position. Otherwise all you can do give the proper information and if he does not change it there is not much you can do at the moment. This is one of the rare moments where being the Referee really matters.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I was already mentally practicing saying, with a straight face, "He called goaltending, coach."

I do not know if I would say anything other than, "Ask the official when he comes in front of you."

Peace

So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by PYRef

So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??

Exactly why isn't this basket interference? Count the bucket and penalize the T.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PYRef

So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??

Goaltending or Basket Interference has nothing to do slapping the backboard. You must touch the ball to have any GT. And you must touch the ball, net or rim while the ball is in the cylinder area in order to call BI at all. The backboard does not apply (unless the rules change at the NF or NCAA level). The only place this could be seen as a GT call that I am aware of is the NBA level.

Peace

[jdw3018]

Slapping the backboard is never BI or goaltending - the only determination is whether the slapping of the backboard was intentional. If it was, T. If not, there is no call.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Goaltending or Basket Interference has nothing to do slapping the backboard. You must touch the ball to have any GT. And you must touch the ball, net or rim while the ball is in the cylinder area in order to call BI at all. The backboard does not apply (unless the rules change at the NF or NCAA level). The only place this could be seen as a GT call that I am aware of is the NBA level.

Peace

So if you jump up and don't slap, but push the backboard and cause it to shake and the ball falls out, you don't have basket interference? I am not saying I'm calling it for the act of slapping itself, but when you slap the backboard, generally it shakes, if the ball comes out how can you not call BI?

[kbilla]

Actually I'm not completely clear on the original post, did the ball come out or go through?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

So if you jump up and don't slap, but push the backboard and cause it to shake and the ball falls out, you don't have basket interference? I am not saying I'm calling it for the act of slapping itself, but when you slap the backboard, generally it shakes, if the ball comes out how can you not call BI?

You can not call BI because there is no provision in the rules for you to call BI.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You can not call BI because there is no provision in the rules for you to call BI.

I don't have my rulebook with me, what does the BI provision say in regard to causing the basket to move? Again I am not talking about the act of slapping itself, agreed that is not BI.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

If you were calling a game played under FIBA rules your partner would have been correct to call goal tending.

However, it sounds that you handled the situation correctly and got the play right. I hope you and your partner cracked open the book and went over what the correct application of the rule in your post game.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I don't have my rulebook with me, what does the BI provision say in regard to causing the basket to move? Again I am not talking about the act of slapping itself, agreed that is not BI.

The only provision based on causing the basket to move is when a player pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position. There is a case play that indicates this also includes a ring that is still vibrating because of the original grabbing of the ring, but no provision for a vibrating ring due to slapping the backboard.

This is a very common misconception about BI - one that I used to have. In fact, I'm positive there was a thread about this sometime last year...

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The only provision based on causing the basket to move is when a player pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position. There is a case play that indicates this also includes a ring that is still vibrating because of the original grabbing of the ring, but no provision for a vibrating ring due to slapping the backboard.

This is a very common misconception about BI - one that I used to have. In fact, I'm positive there was a thread about this sometime last year...

Wow this is definitely one that I have had forever as well...seems completely unfair, but thanks for the knowledge...

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Wow this is definitely one that I have had forever as well...seems completely unfair, but thanks for the knowledge...

Certainly - the other important thing to know is that if a player goes up to block a shot and in the process unintentionally slaps the board hard enough to cause the ring to vibrate and the shot to be missed, there is still no call at all.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by PYRef

So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??

For all the folks asking this question, I posted the following in another thread, but it may be helpful again:

Goaltending (all 5 must be true to be GT):

1. Must be a try.
2. Must be on the way down.
3. Must be completly outside the cylinder.
4. Must be completely above the rim.
5. Must have a chance to go in.

Basket Interference (if any 1 of these happen, it's BI):

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.