Strange situation

[BigToe]

This has never happened to me before but at least I know how to handle it now

This is a high school match using NHFS rules.
I am R1 and blow the whistle for serve. The server is the Libero who rotated into that spot. The Libero notices that the two middles never exchanged. Libero is trying to get her coaches attention and finally does. I am at 4 on the five second count and the coach yells for time out. The R2 grants the time out. All the players leave the court. I yell to my partner that there is no time out because I blew the whistle for serve. He apologizes and says he did not hear my whistle. We get all the players on the court. This entire exchange took about 30 seconds. After all the players get back on the court, coach makes correct Libero replacement with the two middles. We let the exchange happen because of inadvertent whistle and replay. Clearly we were wrong

Oh well, chalk that one up to lesson learned. The oddity to me is that only the server and I heard my whistle I guess as the coach and R2 did not hear it. I know I blew the whistle loudly and to the same level as I had the entire match.

[Antonio.King]

Nice! Doesn't the unnecessary delay come into effect then since your R2 acknowledged the request, since it's apparently a forced timeout?

So they serve, gain, lose the point, and then the time out comes in because of the last request that was acknowledged? Not too familiar with high school procedures.

[BigToe]

King, by rule, I think you are correct. Of course, I have a problem with that rule since the coach actually gets the time out and because it is a time out, she can then make the correction. If we were able to ignore her time out, then her team would have been penalized for either 5 second count or illegal Libero replacement.

If I thought her time out request was made knowing she heard my whistle, I would have yellow carded her for unsportsmanlike.

[Antonio.King]

Originally Posted by BigToe

King, by rule, I think you are correct. Of course, I have a problem with that rule since the coach actually gets the time out and because it is a time out, she can then make the correction. If we were able to ignore her time out, then her team would have been penalized for either 5 second count or illegal Libero replacement.

If I thought her time out request was made knowing she heard my whistle, I would have yellow carded her for unsportsmanlike.

True, however, she didn't even need the timeout to make the correct exchange since your R2 acknowledged her request. So essentially, she got away with a delay. If I were the R1, I would've let the rally progress after they initiate the re-serve, then issue a time out at the next dead ball as well as sanction with a yellow card for unsportsmanlike conduct.

In this order:

- Motion everyone back onto the court
- Call captain over to the stand and your R2
- Explain why you're issuing a yellow card and that the next dead ball will result into the unnecessary delay's forced timeout. "Your coach's actions are unsportsmanlike, thus you are receiving a yellow card. The time out will be forced subsequent to the next dead ball."
- Hold up yellow card (and verbalize? I think you verbalize in HS)
- Beckon for serve
- Award the point as appropriate
- Forced time out against that team

It wouldn't be a big deal if your R2 didn't acknowledge it. Since they did, that makes it worse, so I think a YC AND the forced timeout is adequate punishment, especially since your initial beckon for serve whistle was well before she called for the TO.

[MCBear]

Sorry, Antonio, but in this instance you are totally incorrect. We can not double penalize a team for a single infraction. The R2 screwed up by blowing the whistle for a Time-Out after the beckon for serve...BIG TIME! However, once the error was discovered, the teams return to the court immediately...by Rule 9-9-1, no unnecessary delay has occurred, so that is not an option. In addition, since we don't know what the coach was thinking, a yellow card is unwarranted...no unsporting act has taken place...the R2 simply made a major error!

Originally posted by BigToe: After all the players get back on the court, coach makes correct Libero replacement with the two middles. We let the exchange happen because of inadvertent whistle and replay.

Even though you know that the team had wrong players on the court when you beckoned for the Libero to serve, once your R2 blew the whistle for the Time-Out request, they were allowed to correct their mistake legally. Normally, nothing can take place after the beckon for serve, except that your R2's error totally killed that. You are correct that the result is considered to be a replay and the exchanges are legal.

[Antonio.King]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Sorry, Antonio, but in this instance you are totally incorrect. We can not double penalize a team for a single infraction. The R2 screwed up by blowing the whistle for a Time-Out after the beckon for serve...BIG TIME! However, once the error was discovered, the teams return to the court immediately...by Rule 9-9-1, no unnecessary delay has occurred, so that is not an option. In addition, since we don't know what the coach was thinking, a yellow card is unwarranted...no unsporting act has taken place...the R2 simply made a major error!


Even though you know that the team had wrong players on the court when you beckoned for the Libero to serve, once your R2 blew the whistle for the Time-Out request, they were allowed to correct their mistake legally. Normally, nothing can take place after the beckon for serve, except that your R2's error totally killed that. You are correct that the result is considered to be a replay and the exchanges are legal.

Thanks for clarifying!

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by MCBear

by Rule 9-9-1, no unnecessary delay has occurred, so that is not an option.

To play devil's advocate, 9-9-1 lists instances in which unnecessary delay can be charged, but also says "but is not limited to..."

There was a delay. And it certainly was unnecessary. So one could easily make a case for this being an unnecessary delay.

Just saying.