Strange game

[refnrev]

Partner and I had a very strange JV/V match last week. Girls or coaches had to keep asking for LU checks to stay in proper rotation. H team almost started the game with wrong server. Visiting coaches (who used to coach B'ball tried to whine and complain alot.) Captain of H team had a huge metal hair pin in during game. And other just goofy stuuf you don't usually see in Varsity Vball. Here's what I think we did right and what mistakes we made that I think I learned from.

1. Whining coach... I quietly walked over after hearing "that's awful" the second time and said very calmly where only he and AC could hear, "Coach, nest time I hear, 'that's awful' you just bought a seatbelt." Quiet as a mouse after that.

2. UD for the hair pin. I walk to stand and inform R1 what has happened. She signals UD and calls for point for opponent. It didn't seem right at the time. Should have been a TO instead, right?

3. Home coach calls for TO once and a line up check once just before R1 extends arm to beckon for the serve. I allow both as arm was not up. My whistle was just before hers. Correct procedure, yes?

4. R1 calls double hit once on H and once on V. Both coaches ask me if block counts as first hit? I tell them I'm not sure what her ruling was but I would check between games. Her interp.. the ball was bellow the ribbon on the net when touched and therefore could not be considered a block since it was not above the height of the net... Thus first touch. I explain to both coaches and since both coaches had it called identically on their teams they seemed satisfied with the answer.

Now for a question. Home #6 is scheduled to serve. H #10 is discovered to have metal hair clip and opponents are awarded LOR/point... correctly or incorrectly. Who should the next server in the rotation? H6 who never served because illegal equipment was discovered before the serve or H10 who would rotate to server poition next? H10 served because of loss of rally. Was this right? Your help is appreciated.

RR

[Back In The Saddle]

My thoughts:

1. Good on being proactive at R2, and good outcome. But ultimatums have a way of going sour on us some times.

2. If the team has a TO, then yes, UD is a TO. If no TO's remain, it's LOR/Point.

3. Yep. First whistle wins

4. What Felix said

My understanding, H6's term of service was ended by the LOR/point. So H10 would rotate into the serve the next time H serves.

[FMadera]

1. Works for me.
2. Penalty is a timeout. If the team has no timeouts, the penalty is loss of rally. It is not automatically a loss of rally.
3. As annoying as it might be, it's legal. The request should be granted.
4. Maybe I'm not understanding this, but it sounds like the R1 was wrong. It's not the position of the ball when it's blocked, it's whether it's contacted by someone who is above the net. The contact itself need not take place above the net. This sounds like it should have been ruled a block.
5. If the penalty is LOR (assuming correctly), then the term of service ends, and the serve goes to the other team. H10 would only have served when her team won a loss of rally to earn the right to serve again. If H10 served without V serving, someone kicked it.

[refnrev]

Back to the serve. Had the proper penalty (TO) been awarded, H6 would have served after TO, right. But, if there had been no time outs and proper penalty was LOR, H6 would forfeit the serve and after Visitors served it would be H10, corrrect?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by FMadera

4. Maybe I'm not understanding this, but it sounds like the R1 was wrong. It's not the position of the ball when it's blocked, it's whether it's contacted by someone who is above the net. The contact itself need not take place above the net. This sounds like it should have been ruled a block.

Can you elaborate on this please? I see that the definition of "Block" in 9-5-1c does not mention the position of the ball, but it does include the phrase "reaching higher than the top of the net at the moment of contact." If a ball is tipped over the block, the girl is on the way down, and contacts the ball waist high behind her, that's a block if ... what... her head is still above the top of the net?

I'm a second year official and just trying to grasp this. Thanks.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Can you elaborate on this please? I see that the definition of "Block" in 9-5-1c does not mention the position of the ball, but it does include the phrase "reaching higher than the top of the net at the moment of contact." If a ball is tipped over the block, the girl is on the way down, and contacts the ball waist high behind her, that's a block if ... what... her head is still above the top of the net?

I'm a second year official and just trying to grasp this. Thanks.

In your example, yes. Also, let's say hands are above the net, but the ball is hit into a shoulder while hands are still above the net...even though the body part that is above the net doesn't contact the ball, the contact occurs while a body part is above the net. This constitutes a block, by rule.

Again, the body part actually contacting the ball need not be above the net, and the ball doesn't necessarily have to be above the net for a block to occur.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by refnrev

Back to the serve. Had the proper penalty (TO) been awarded, H6 would have served after TO, right. But, if there had been no time outs and proper penalty was LOR, H6 would forfeit the serve and after Visitors served it would be H10, corrrect?

Bingo.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

2. Penalty [for jewelry, added by me] is a timeout. If the team has no timeouts, the penalty is loss of rally. It is not automatically a loss of rally.

Anyone care to spell this out for NCAA-W rules? My partner, who was R2, immediately issued a yellow card to a girl with a bracelet on.

Aside from the R2 not giving the card, what should we have done? Is the penalty directly to the player or to the team?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Anyone care to spell this out for NCAA-W rules? My partner, who was R2, immediately issued a yellow card to a girl with a bracelet on.

Aside from the R2 not giving the card, what should we have done? Is the penalty directly to the player or to the team?

Team delay sanction. First offense is a warning, subsequent offenses are penalties. Sanctions do NOT carry over from set to set.

Also, under NCAA protocol, the R2 should not be carrying cards.

[refnrev]

OK FM, tell me how an overhead two hand contact with the ball below the ribbon can be a block and not a first hit. I'm having trouble seeing that one as a block. rr

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by refnrev

OK FM, tell me how an overhead two hand contact with the ball below the ribbon can be a block and not a first hit. I'm having trouble seeing that one as a block. rr

RR,

Not all blocks contact the hands. You're assuming all blocks contact the hands. Not true.

The example you stated would likely be first contact. It also is not the same as what I described earlier.

Let's say a blocker has hands above the net, and the ball is hit into her head, which is below the net. Legal block, even though the contact occurred below the net.

[refnrev]

Got it, because my reference was only to a overhead hand block. Thnaks a lot!