Tough One

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Ever have a night where you felt like you didn't belong out there? That was me last night as the R2 on a high level match in probably the toughest league in my county.

Was told I was ball watching too much and that hadn't been an issue all year until tonight-in fact I've probably been really OCD about going wide to narrow.Caught a large majority of the nets but still missed about 5 in 4 sets and at least 1 centerline.Stepped out and was going to ask for a yellow for HC arguing over a touch versus tape decision after we got together and rendered our verdict & got shaken off.2nd yellow I wanted to give I was called over to the stand & my partner tried to talk me out of it.AC of the same team I wanted to give the yellow for earlier was yelling on a reaching over v back row attack decision that didn't go their way.She ended up giving it but never been called over and questioned on a yellow in 2.5 years.

I know we all have tough nights out there where we feel our performance isn't up to snuff.This was my first in 2.5 years and I've worked this conference successfully twice last year and once earlier this year.Normally I'm assigned as a line judge to these schools but I'm just reminding myself that my assignor trusts me with these kind of matches for a reason.I'm R2'ing this conference twice in the next 13 days-time to get back on the horse and redeem myself.

Thanks for reading-making my ncaa d2 debut today on a line,wish me luck

[PaREF]

I wouldn't want to officiate with anyone who never had that feeling at one time in their officiating careers. Everyone has days when they feel they are not up to the task at hand. It means that they care about what they do and want to always give their best efforts - and are disappointed when they don't. If you never have that feeling, you probably don't care enough about the game and are an official who is only doing it for the paycheck.

Why did she call you over to discuss the yellow card request? Did she feel that you were being too thin-skinned? Or was she trying to give you advice to try to diffuse the situation without the use of cards?

I think that a lot of officials have difficulty dealing with complaining coaches and let them get away with too much unsporting behavior. There are certainly times when sanction cards are appropriate and necessary but continued training on how to deal with coaches is a valuable tool. How you address coaches' concerns/complaints can sometimes make the difference between a smooth match and a very rocky one.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

PaRef
She brought me over to try and get me to diffuse the situation without using the cards.We were late in the 4th-somewhere around 20 to 23 points in when the play happened so I can appreciate the view of was it worth it to sit the head coach so close to the end of the set that was expressed in debrief?

-I will never be one of those guys that's out here to collect their check and go home.I want to give the student athletes and coaches the best I have every day I put the uniform on because without them I don't have a job.

[chapmaja]

I have a couple points of view on this.

First, I'm not sure I would want to be working with an R1 who did not give the yellow card I requested, unless there was something so obviously outside the rules done by the R2 causing the requested card. If I request a card as the R2, I will fully expect that the card be given. If I am the R1 and my R2 requests a card be given, I will be giving that card. If it is a questionable reason, we can discuss that later and maybe decide that next time the card should not be pulled so quickly. On that point, if I'm working a basketball game and my partner calls a technical foul, I'm not going to go over and tell him not to give the Tech. Volleyball cards are simply out version of technical fouls. When one is requested, it should be given.

Now, if I am the R1 and my R2 requests the card be given, I will call my R2 over to the stand and we will make sure we both understand the reason the card was given. If I give a coach a card as an R1, I will call my R2 over so my R2 understands why the card was given as well. That is strong official-official communication. There is a difference between talking an official out of giving a card and making sure we both understand why it was given.

Now, as to the second part. I think any official worth anything has had matches/games/ ect that they feel overmatched. The key is to use these as learning experiences. I had one last night where as the R2 in a city rivalry match I felt overmatched not by the caliber of play, but the lack of caliber of scorers table and line judge help. Every few points it seemed like I was having to double check with the table on scorer or tracker issues or had coaches questioning the score (mostly because it was in fact wrong). Then at the middle of the 5th set we have this gem of a response from a line judge.

Situation: Team A hits a middle attack that appears to sail long. Team A is up saying there was a touch. At first neither line judge (both freshman players from Team A's school) signals a touch. Finally after about 5 seconds the LJ on Team A's side signals touch. The R1 calls me over and asked me to find out exactly what she was. I go over and get this response "I'm not really sure what I saw, I have a bad migraine right now and I'm really not sure.

Huh, NOW you let someone know you have a migraine headache, in the middle of the 5th set when you've been the LJ for 4 previous sets (and shaky at that). Needless to say the touch was not accepted (had it been accepted I likely would have been having the card discussion mentioned above).

The other LJ would have been replaced by the R1 had she not removed herself prior to the 5th set (not that the team mate was any better).

Between the table and the LJ's and the fact we went a long 5 sets, neither myself or my R1 was thrilled after the match.

[FMadera]

Thoughts...

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Now, if I am the R1 and my R2 requests the card be given, I will call my R2 over to the stand and we will make sure we both understand the reason the card was given.

Why? If your partner requests a card, aren't you going to honor that request and let your partner explain to the coach why they earned the card? You just said if they request it you're giving the card. So why the conference about it? Give it and let the R2 deal with the coach.

If I give a coach a card as an R1, I will call my R2 over so my R2 understands why the card was given as well. That is strong official-official communication.

Also unnecessary. Call the captain over and say, "Your coach is receiving a warning for unsporting conduct." and let the captain explain to the coach, assuming the coach doesn't understand the reason for the card (which is rare). Your partner can also hear the captain explain it, and then the R2 would know the reason for the card. No need for a powwow here.

Situation: Team A hits a middle attack that appears to sail long. Team A is up saying there was a touch. At first neither line judge (both freshman players from Team A's school) signals a touch. Finally after about 5 seconds the LJ on Team A's side signals touch.

...and that's where we're done. You don't have a call right away? Now we go with what I saw. You come up with the touch late? As if I'm taking an indecisive call that late. The line judges are there to give information, but ultimately, all decisions rest with the R1. If you don't feel comfortable with the input, there's no obligation to take or consider it.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Thanks for your input everyone-I had a much better night in this particular conference on Tuesday night in a routine 3 set match.Got nailed for missing 1 net but I know why I missed it-sometimes I tend to transition a bit too early and that's what happened.Also got my evaluation scores from a prior DH where I was observed got high marks as both R1 and R2 as I'm looking to move up.

chapmaja-if you knew you had a shaky line judge why did you wait so long to replace them? with me if a line judge shows any shakiness (especially in a match like described above) I might bring them to the stand and talk with them once.Then they get replaced.

[chapmaja]

Response in Red

Originally Posted by FMadera

Thoughts...



Why? If your partner requests a card, aren't you going to honor that request and let your partner explain to the coach why they earned the card? You just said if they request it you're giving the card. So why the conference about it? Give it and let the R2 deal with the coach.

I did not say I'm not giving the card. If my partner requests a card I am giving in. As officials we should know exactly what is going on at all times. That is were communications between officials come in.


Also unnecessary. Call the captain over and say, "Your coach is receiving a warning for unsporting conduct." and let the captain explain to the coach, assuming the coach doesn't understand the reason for the card (which is rare). Your partner can also hear the captain explain it, and then the R2 would know the reason for the card. No need for a powwow here.

Again, I disagree. The R2 may not know why the card was given and may not have seen the reason because of other duties they are performing. As for the R2 hearing the captain tell the coach. That's fine if the coach is near the 10 foot line, but what if the coach is at the end line and the captain comes to her. The R2 should not be leaving his or her position to listen in on what is said between coach and captain. In fact I don't think the R2 should ever be listening to the discussions between a coach and captain. If that conversation is so loud it can't be ignored that is one thing, but if they are having a quiet conversation it is not an officials job to listen in.



...and that's where we're done. You don't have a call right away? Now we go with what I saw. You come up with the touch late? As if I'm taking an indecisive call that late. The line judges are there to give information, but ultimately, all decisions rest with the R1. If you don't feel comfortable with the input, there's no obligation to take or consider it.

I can't say a 1 size fits all situation comes into play. It depends on the line judges working the match and the factors that may have influenced the call. It's one thing if the LJ's are trained professionals, but totally different if they are kids working the lines.

[FMadera]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely rare that your partner needs to know why a sanction was requested (with the exception of a protestable error), so if you have any level of trust in your partner's skill, there's no need to know exactly why a sanction was requested. If a coach needs to know, then the captain can tell the coach. If the R2 happens to be there when the coach hears, fine, but if not, the R2 should be making sure the scorer records the sanction and the coach can send the captain for more explanation or ask the R2 at that point.

I've had a handful of times when my R1 has requested a card, and the coach asks me, and I've always said, "Send your captain to ask." And yeah, I've been curious myself, but the coach is already at the attack line talking to me so when the captain comes back, I can easily hear. If the conversation has been further down, I've never been concerned enough to feel like I had to hear it, because I didn't need to know the reason.

But your mileage may vary.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by FMadera

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely rare that your partner needs to know why a sanction was requested (with the exception of a protestable error), so if you have any level of trust in your partner's skill, there's no need to know exactly why a sanction was requested. If a coach needs to know, then the captain can tell the coach. If the R2 happens to be there when the coach hears, fine, but if not, the R2 should be making sure the scorer records the sanction and the coach can send the captain for more explanation or ask the R2 at that point.

I've had a handful of times when my R1 has requested a card, and the coach asks me, and I've always said, "Send your captain to ask." And yeah, I've been curious myself, but the coach is already at the attack line talking to me so when the captain comes back, I can easily hear. If the conversation has been further down, I've never been concerned enough to feel like I had to hear it, because I didn't need to know the reason.

But your mileage may vary.

You have one thing right we are going to have to agree to disagree. I will say this, volleyball is the ONLY sport when an unsportsmanlike sanction is issued and the officials don't let each other know what happened if we do it your way. every other sport I officiate there is communication between officials when an unsportsmanlike conduct situation occurs so all officials know what is going on. That includes football, basketball, soccer, swimming and diving, softball, and baseball. Also, when an coach is issued a sufficient enough sanction to warrant a report to the state association, both officials are supposed to be involved in the reporting process so both officials need to know, that includes volleyball. One of the questions we get asked when an ejection occurs if we are the non-ejecting officials is what were the sequence of events leading up to the ejection. If we are not communicating we may not know and may not be able to answer that question, thus the reason communication between officials is REQUIRED, not optional.