That was a tough call

[umpjim]

Top 7 WS, ball down the line, Moyers does a great shovel from the glove to 1B who barehands it. Baserunner is too quick and is called safe on the play. Replay to me shows runner was out and ump was moving when he called it. I don't know what angle would have helped but I would have been busting to 90 to the throw and I would try to be stopped on the call. I suspect even with me busting (not that fast) I would still not have the angle and the throw going to the hand instead of the glove would have made it a guess.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Top 7 WS, ball down the line, Moyers does a great shovel from the glove to 1B who barehands it. Baserunner is too quick and is called safe on the play. Replay to me shows runner was out and ump was moving when he called it. I don't know what angle would have helped but I would have been busting to 90 to the throw and I would try to be stopped on the call. I suspect even with me busting (not that fast) I would still not have the angle and the throw going to the hand instead of the glove would have made it a guess.

2SF would've been a much better location.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Top 7 WS, ball down the line, Moyers does a great shovel from the glove to 1B who barehands it. Baserunner is too quick and is called safe on the play. Replay to me shows runner was out and ump was moving when he called it. I don't know what angle would have helped but I would have been busting to 90 to the throw and I would try to be stopped on the call. I suspect even with me busting (not that fast) I would still not have the angle and the throw going to the hand instead of the glove would have made it a guess.

Football guy here but I umpired softball while in college. One thing I recall was a lot of this kind of play relies on sound (glove-bag or bag-glove). Is that an actual mechanic you baseball guys use or was that a lazy mechanic taught to a rec-league softball guy? If that is the right mechanic, did this because a harder call because the "throw" was so short and barehanded by the 1st baseman? There was likely no sound of the catch.

[umpjim]

i'm taking the bait. Where's 2FS?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Top 7 WS, ball down the line, Moyers does a great shovel from the glove to 1B who barehands it. Baserunner is too quick and is called safe on the play. Replay to me shows runner was out and ump was moving when he called it. I don't know what angle would have helped but I would have been busting to 90 to the throw and I would try to be stopped on the call. I suspect even with me busting (not that fast) I would still not have the angle and the throw going to the hand instead of the glove would have made it a guess.

Rich is right, especially at this level with a really fast runner. The play happens much faster at this level to start with, and with a speedy runner, it just makes it impossible to get to 90 degrees and still get set. That's why the umpire missed the call. He couldn't get set and see it right. Two steps fair gives you a really good look at the foot and the glove at the same time, and gives you a set, solid look at the play.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjim

i'm taking the bait. Where's 2FS?

Two steps fair.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Football guy here but I umpired softball while in college. One thing I recall was a lot of this kind of play relies on sound (glove-bag or bag-glove). Is that an actual mechanic you baseball guys use or was that a lazy mechanic taught to a rec-league softball guy? If that is the right mechanic, did this because a harder call because the "throw" was so short and barehanded by the 1st baseman? There was likely no sound of the catch.

Listening for the pop of the glove is great when you are set for the play and the play is routine. Plays like this one you certainly can't depend on sound. You have to get set far enough from the play to see the runner's foot, and F3 catching the ball at the same time.

[umpjim]

Thanks guys, I reversed 2SF to 2FS so it didn't make sense to me. That location might work and I've never used it at my level but I can see why it may be the preferred mechanic at the college level. Still, this one was sight over sound. Good luck.

[Rich]

Didn't cost my Phillies the game, anyway. 5-4, Phils, Game 4 tomorrow.

I think Culbreth's strike zone was outstanding tonight.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Didn't cost my Phillies the game, anyway. 5-4, Phils, Game 4 tomorrow.

I think Culbreth's strike zone was outstanding tonight.

Fanboy...

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Didn't cost my Phillies the game, anyway. 5-4, Phils, Game 4 tomorrow.

I think Culbreth's strike zone was outstanding tonight.

It cost Jamie the win.

Rita

[SanDiegoSteve]

And his sidekick, Fangirl.


GO RAYS

[UES]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Listening for the pop of the glove is great when you are set for the play and the play is routine. Plays like this one you certainly can't depend on sound. You have to get set far enough from the play to see the runner's foot, and F3 catching the ball at the same time.

I did not see the play so I don't know what angle U1 had but I agree with SDS - distance away from the play is key. Because of the lack of sound, you're best bet is to swing all the away around into the baseline between first and second and get a "track meet" finish line angle of the play. If U1 wasn't set for the play, I would assume he attempted to get to this angle but just didn't get there fast enough.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Didn't cost my Phillies the game, anyway. 5-4, Phils, Game 4 tomorrow.

I think Culbreth's strike zone was outstanding tonight.

I had just given a 20-minute clinic to a team on the strike zone yesterday morning. (As we all know, many players get all the way to college without knowing what the strike zone really is and how it can sometimes be interpreted.) So after spelling it all out to a bunch of wide-eyed players, then we have Fieldin Culbreth behind the plate with all of those cameras and K-zones, and any of those players who watched that game got a GREAT course on ...1) how a pitcher's umpire's strike zone works, and 2) how a great off-speed pitcher plays around with a pitcher's umpire masterfully.

What a GREAT lesson that game was!

[DG]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Top 7 WS, ball down the line, Moyers does a great shovel from the glove to 1B who barehands it. Baserunner is too quick and is called safe on the play. Replay to me shows runner was out and ump was moving when he called it. I don't know what angle would have helped but I would have been busting to 90 to the throw and I would try to be stopped on the call. I suspect even with me busting (not that fast) I would still not have the angle and the throw going to the hand instead of the glove would have made it a guess.

The umpire was busting to get to the 90, he was about 80 when he is coming to stop. Watch the replay and you will see his eyes bearing down on the bag, and the ball was caught bare handed. From where he was he could not see the catch.

2 steps fair would have been much better spot to call, and 2 steps foul would have been even better. But how was he suppposed to know the throw was going to the bare hand side?