Tough One

[FMadera]

Thoughts...

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Now, if I am the R1 and my R2 requests the card be given, I will call my R2 over to the stand and we will make sure we both understand the reason the card was given.

Why? If your partner requests a card, aren't you going to honor that request and let your partner explain to the coach why they earned the card? You just said if they request it you're giving the card. So why the conference about it? Give it and let the R2 deal with the coach.

If I give a coach a card as an R1, I will call my R2 over so my R2 understands why the card was given as well. That is strong official-official communication.

Also unnecessary. Call the captain over and say, "Your coach is receiving a warning for unsporting conduct." and let the captain explain to the coach, assuming the coach doesn't understand the reason for the card (which is rare). Your partner can also hear the captain explain it, and then the R2 would know the reason for the card. No need for a powwow here.

Situation: Team A hits a middle attack that appears to sail long. Team A is up saying there was a touch. At first neither line judge (both freshman players from Team A's school) signals a touch. Finally after about 5 seconds the LJ on Team A's side signals touch.

...and that's where we're done. You don't have a call right away? Now we go with what I saw. You come up with the touch late? As if I'm taking an indecisive call that late. The line judges are there to give information, but ultimately, all decisions rest with the R1. If you don't feel comfortable with the input, there's no obligation to take or consider it.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Thanks for your input everyone-I had a much better night in this particular conference on Tuesday night in a routine 3 set match.Got nailed for missing 1 net but I know why I missed it-sometimes I tend to transition a bit too early and that's what happened.Also got my evaluation scores from a prior DH where I was observed got high marks as both R1 and R2 as I'm looking to move up.

chapmaja-if you knew you had a shaky line judge why did you wait so long to replace them? with me if a line judge shows any shakiness (especially in a match like described above) I might bring them to the stand and talk with them once.Then they get replaced.

[chapmaja]

Response in Red

Originally Posted by FMadera

Thoughts...



Why? If your partner requests a card, aren't you going to honor that request and let your partner explain to the coach why they earned the card? You just said if they request it you're giving the card. So why the conference about it? Give it and let the R2 deal with the coach.

I did not say I'm not giving the card. If my partner requests a card I am giving in. As officials we should know exactly what is going on at all times. That is were communications between officials come in.


Also unnecessary. Call the captain over and say, "Your coach is receiving a warning for unsporting conduct." and let the captain explain to the coach, assuming the coach doesn't understand the reason for the card (which is rare). Your partner can also hear the captain explain it, and then the R2 would know the reason for the card. No need for a powwow here.

Again, I disagree. The R2 may not know why the card was given and may not have seen the reason because of other duties they are performing. As for the R2 hearing the captain tell the coach. That's fine if the coach is near the 10 foot line, but what if the coach is at the end line and the captain comes to her. The R2 should not be leaving his or her position to listen in on what is said between coach and captain. In fact I don't think the R2 should ever be listening to the discussions between a coach and captain. If that conversation is so loud it can't be ignored that is one thing, but if they are having a quiet conversation it is not an officials job to listen in.



...and that's where we're done. You don't have a call right away? Now we go with what I saw. You come up with the touch late? As if I'm taking an indecisive call that late. The line judges are there to give information, but ultimately, all decisions rest with the R1. If you don't feel comfortable with the input, there's no obligation to take or consider it.

I can't say a 1 size fits all situation comes into play. It depends on the line judges working the match and the factors that may have influenced the call. It's one thing if the LJ's are trained professionals, but totally different if they are kids working the lines.

[FMadera]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely rare that your partner needs to know why a sanction was requested (with the exception of a protestable error), so if you have any level of trust in your partner's skill, there's no need to know exactly why a sanction was requested. If a coach needs to know, then the captain can tell the coach. If the R2 happens to be there when the coach hears, fine, but if not, the R2 should be making sure the scorer records the sanction and the coach can send the captain for more explanation or ask the R2 at that point.

I've had a handful of times when my R1 has requested a card, and the coach asks me, and I've always said, "Send your captain to ask." And yeah, I've been curious myself, but the coach is already at the attack line talking to me so when the captain comes back, I can easily hear. If the conversation has been further down, I've never been concerned enough to feel like I had to hear it, because I didn't need to know the reason.

But your mileage may vary.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by FMadera

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely rare that your partner needs to know why a sanction was requested (with the exception of a protestable error), so if you have any level of trust in your partner's skill, there's no need to know exactly why a sanction was requested. If a coach needs to know, then the captain can tell the coach. If the R2 happens to be there when the coach hears, fine, but if not, the R2 should be making sure the scorer records the sanction and the coach can send the captain for more explanation or ask the R2 at that point.

I've had a handful of times when my R1 has requested a card, and the coach asks me, and I've always said, "Send your captain to ask." And yeah, I've been curious myself, but the coach is already at the attack line talking to me so when the captain comes back, I can easily hear. If the conversation has been further down, I've never been concerned enough to feel like I had to hear it, because I didn't need to know the reason.

But your mileage may vary.

You have one thing right we are going to have to agree to disagree. I will say this, volleyball is the ONLY sport when an unsportsmanlike sanction is issued and the officials don't let each other know what happened if we do it your way. every other sport I officiate there is communication between officials when an unsportsmanlike conduct situation occurs so all officials know what is going on. That includes football, basketball, soccer, swimming and diving, softball, and baseball. Also, when an coach is issued a sufficient enough sanction to warrant a report to the state association, both officials are supposed to be involved in the reporting process so both officials need to know, that includes volleyball. One of the questions we get asked when an ejection occurs if we are the non-ejecting officials is what were the sequence of events leading up to the ejection. If we are not communicating we may not know and may not be able to answer that question, thus the reason communication between officials is REQUIRED, not optional.