double base discussion

[Tru_in_Blu]

I had a play in slow pitch tonight that I thought was pretty cut and dry.

Runner on 1B, 1 out. Batter lines out to F6. Runner was about 4 steps off the base and starts heading back. He sees the ball fired over from F6 and ducks to avoid getting hit in the head. In doing so, he never made it back to the base. F3 catches the throw and I ring up the runner on the double play.

Offense coach comes out to appeal, stating that F3 only touched the colored portion of the base. Knowing that the base in this case is one big base I didn't even pay attention to if he was on white, orange, or in between.

After the game coach and I discuss and he shows me rule 8.2.N. His contention is that since "N" appears only under 8.2 The batter-runner is out, all of the sub-headings apply only to BR.

I tried to convince him that the relevant portions of "N" on this play were:
7. On balls hit to the outfield with no play on the BR advancing to first base, the BR may touch the white or contrasting color portion. Should the BR return, the runner and defense can use the white or contrasting color portion.

and,

8. When tagging up on a fly ball, the white or contrasting color portion of the base may be used. On an appeal for the runner leaving the base too soon, the defense may use the white or contrasting color of the base.

When I searched this matter, I came across a phrase that IrishMafia had included in a post:

"I assume you are referring to a batter-runner since there is no double-base for a runner."

I'm totally on board with that, but is it noted in the rule book?

It would seem that the section on the double base might be better suited in a different section.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I had a play in slow pitch tonight that I thought was pretty cut and dry.

Runner on 1B, 1 out. Batter lines out to F6. Runner was about 4 steps off the base and starts heading back. He sees the ball fired over from F6 and ducks to avoid getting hit in the head. In doing so, he never made it back to the base. F3 catches the throw and I ring up the runner on the double play.

Offense coach comes out to appeal, stating that F3 only touched the colored portion of the base. Knowing that the base in this case is one big base I didn't even pay attention to if he was on white, orange, or in between.

After the game coach and I discuss and he shows me rule 8.2.N. His contention is that since "N" appears only under 8.2 The batter-runner is out, all of the sub-headings apply only to BR.

I tried to convince him that the relevant portions of "N" on this play were:
7. On balls hit to the outfield with no play on the BR advancing to first base, the BR may touch the white or contrasting color portion. Should the BR return, the runner and defense can use the white or contrasting color portion.

and,

8. When tagging up on a fly ball, the white or contrasting color portion of the base may be used. On an appeal for the runner leaving the base too soon, the defense may use the white or contrasting color of the base.

When I searched this matter, I came across a phrase that IrishMafia had included in a post:

"I assume you are referring to a batter-runner since there is no double-base for a runner."

I'm totally on board with that, but is it noted in the rule book?

It would seem that the section on the double base might be better suited in a different section.

As your red portions do not apply to BR, they would fit saying R and being in "runner is not out".

[Tru_in_Blu]

I think it's more a matter of bad editing in the rule book. Rule 8-2 subsections A thru M and O detail those occasions that the BR would be declared out.

Subsection N does not carry forward the argument that "The BR is out when..."

That section does not seem to belong in this space. It's almost a stand alone listing of events that would warrant its own "section" somewhere in Rule 8.

The coach's daughter had the ASA rules app on her phone and when she searched for "double base" it brought her to rule 8-2. And that led to the discussion that the runner should not be out because the defense used only the colored portion of the bag.

I know I got the call right, but I'm having a hard time explaining why it's right to someone else without specific references.

[MD Longhorn]

Terminology is important.

BR (in all of those rules you quote) means Batter-Runner. Period.

In the original play you posted, you don't have a batter-runner. You have a runner. None of the parts of the rule that mention a BR are relevant to a runner.

Looked at that way, the rule is clear, and is in the right place in the rulebook.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'll agree that it belongs in Section 8.

It does NOT belong in the section about when a BR is out.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'll agree that it belongs in Section 8.

It does NOT belong in the section about when a BR is out.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Why do you think it doesn't belong in the section about when a BR is out...

BR is the only one that can be out for touching the wrong half of the base. It cannot be in the section about when a RUNNER is out because a runner cannot be called out for touching the wrong half of the base (which, incidentally, is how you explain it to the coach, and when he trots out rule 8.2 and you point out to him that ENTIRE SECTION is about the batter-runner, and the player he's complaining about is a runner... the discussion is over).