ASA Catcher's Box Violation

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One would think that if you still saw the pitch after the catcher moved she probably left the box early.

How? She can begin moving as soon as the pitch is released... she would have to be all the way out of the catcher's box before the release to be illegal. Seems equally likely that she may or may not have done that.

[Robert Goodman]

The reason I asked what determines whether an action is a pitch is because in baseball there's been discussion of whether the pitcher can throw home to make a play on a runner coming from 3rd without the throw's counting as a pitch, and if so, how the 2 actions are distinguished.

[MD Longhorn]

This is kind of a silly question. In baseball, they lead off the base before the pitch... and pitchers can step off the rubber to become a fielder and throw to a base.

In softball, they do not leave the base until the pitch is released. So there's no such thing as throwing to a base.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

This is kind of a silly question. In baseball, they lead off the base before the pitch... and pitchers can step off the rubber to become a fielder and throw to a base.

In softball, they do not leave the base until the pitch is released. So there's no such thing as throwing to a base.

Then why did they pitch out in this case? I'd assumed this was a version of fast pitch that allowed leading & stealing, and that the purpose of the pitchout was to counter a suicide squeeze. Otherwise pitching out seems a total waste of a pitch.

[Linknblue]

It was plain ol' ASA Fastpitch 12U A play. I can only assume that the defense did what they did because it was a close game and the defense had a 1st and 3rd situation to deal with and there was some sort of play on to combat it....but with 12U, it ain't perfect.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

It was plain ol' ASA Fastpitch 12U A play. I can only assume that the defense did what they did because it was a close game and the defense had a 1st and 3rd situation to deal with and there was some sort of play on to combat it....but with 12U, it ain't perfect.

Some sort of play...to combat a situation where the runners have to hold their bases until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand?

In that case, couldn't you just rule on general principles? There's no advantage to pitching out, there's no safety issue, it's not wasting time, the catcher gains no edge by repositioning on a ball that's not going to be in play...so why would the action be penalized?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Some sort of play...to combat a situation where the runners have to hold their bases until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand?

In that case, couldn't you just rule on general principles? There's no advantage to pitching out, there's no safety issue, it's not wasting time, the catcher gains no edge by repositioning on a ball that's not going to be in play...so why would the action be penalized?

Runners were on first and third, so I'm guessing the reason the catcher did what she did was to make a possible play on R2 advancing to second base? I see nothing wrong with that. (Edited to add) Now that I re-read the OP, the batter was squaring to bunt, so perhaps the defense thought there was a squeeze play coming. Again, I don't see a problem with what the catcher did here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Then why did they pitch out in this case? I'd assumed this was a version of fast pitch that allowed leading & stealing, and that the purpose of the pitchout was to counter a suicide squeeze. Otherwise pitching out seems a total waste of a pitch.

Never seen a single game, have you...

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How? She can begin moving as soon as the pitch is released... she would have to be all the way out of the catcher's box before the release to be illegal. Seems equally likely that she may or may not have done that.

My only statement on this is that if this is any type of higher level game, for the catcher to catch the ball in the rear of LH BB chest high, while standing, it would be pretty darn quick to stand move and be in position to catch. If this is a pitchout, the pitch isn't going to be a changeup coming in, it will be a fastball. A fastball at a higher level of ball is highly unlikely to give a catcher the time to get moved all the way if she really left at the release.

With that said, this is a HTBT situation to actually make a call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How? She can begin moving as soon as the pitch is released... she would have to be all the way out of the catcher's box before the release to be illegal. Seems equally likely that she may or may not have done that.

Actually, she can begin moving anytime. She just cannot leave the CB until the pitch is released.

When I said, "see the pitch", I meant seeing the whole pitch. That pitch normally gets there pretty quick. OP stated the catcher came up. If you are set, odds are you are going to see the back of the catcher's helmet or shoulder for a split second. IMO, if the catcher is up and gone and the umpire still sees the entire pitch, I would think it is quite possible the catcher left the box early.

I didn't say to make the call, just what may have happened.