How to address an incorrect umpire

[Reffing Rev.]

I have stepped away from umpiring to coaching

Since I am a very active football official I read and know the rules as well as I hope my football coaches would.

Tonight I ran into the "hands are part of the bat" umpire.

From my coaching box I couldn't tell if it was bat knob or hands and when PU said foul ball I assumed it was knob. My batter acted like it was hands and so I came to check on her and umpire said, "the ball hit her fingers" I then came all the way to PU and stood side by side facing the infield and said, "you know that the hands are not a part of the bat, right?" He assured me the hands are an extension of the bat and I encouraged him to ask his partner, who then agreed with him that the hands are a part of the bat. I returned to my box during their very brief conference and let the game continue.

After the game PU has to leave through our dugout and I'm packing up gear and PU comes up to me and tells me how much he does not appreciate the way I disrespected him. At that time I apologized and encouraged him to look up the rule and I would do the same and next time we see each other we would know what needs to be done.

In this or a similar situation, how would you like the coach to approach you, or should he?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I have stepped away from umpiring to coaching

Since I am a very active football official I read and know the rules as well as I hope my football coaches would.

Tonight I ran into the "hands are part of the bat" umpire.

From my coaching box I couldn't tell if it was bat knob or hands and when PU said foul ball I assumed it was knob. My batter acted like it was hands and so I came to check on her and umpire said, "the ball hit her fingers" I then came all the way to PU and stood side by side facing the infield and said, "you know that the hands are not a part of the bat, right?" He assured me the hands are an extension of the bat and I encouraged him to ask his partner, who then agreed with him that the hands are a part of the bat. I returned to my box during their very brief conference and let the game continue.

After the game PU has to leave through our dugout and I'm packing up gear and PU comes up to me and tells me how much he does not appreciate the way I disrespected him. At that time I apologized and encouraged him to look up the rule and I would do the same and next time we see each other we would know what needs to be done.

In this or a similar situation, how would you like the coach to approach you, or should he?

From what I read, you did nothing wrong. The umpire sounds like he was wrong on several levels.

First, not knowing the rule.

Second, coming over to a coach and stating that he doesn't like the way he was disrespected on the field. He was not disrespected by you. You did exactly what you should have done and respectfully informed him he was wrong. I would not like to see what this umpire is like when he actually gets disrespected by a coach. The bigger issue is he approached a coach in the dugout area. Personally I hate having to leave through a dugout. I try scouting the field prior to the game to find the "escape route" in case the game has close calls the teams don't agree with. If I can't find a way out to avoid the dugout, I try getting through as quick as possible and certainly don't approach the coaches in the dugout. If they approach me I try to be respectful, but I don't seek out the coaches on my way out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I have stepped away from umpiring to coaching

Since I am a very active football official I read and know the rules as well as I hope my football coaches would.

Tonight I ran into the "hands are part of the bat" umpire.

From my coaching box I couldn't tell if it was bat knob or hands and when PU said foul ball I assumed it was knob. My batter acted like it was hands and so I came to check on her and umpire said, "the ball hit her fingers" I then came all the way to PU and stood side by side facing the infield and said, "you know that the hands are not a part of the bat, right?" He assured me the hands are an extension of the bat and I encouraged him to ask his partner, who then agreed with him that the hands are a part of the bat. I returned to my box during their very brief conference and let the game continue.

After the game PU has to leave through our dugout and I'm packing up gear and PU comes up to me and tells me how much he does not appreciate the way I disrespected him. At that time I apologized and encouraged him to look up the rule and I would do the same and next time we see each other we would know what needs to be done.

In this or a similar situation, how would you like the coach to approach you, or should he?

You should have just protested the game.

And you could have responded, "I don't appreciate the umpires who disrespect the game by not taking the time to learn the rules".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

From my coaching box I couldn't tell if it was bat knob or hands and when PU said foul ball I assumed it was knob. My batter acted like it was hands and so I came to check on her and umpire said, "the ball hit her fingers" I then came all the way to PU and stood side by side facing the infield and said, "you know that the hands are not a part of the bat, right?" He assured me the hands are an extension of the bat and I encouraged him to ask his partner, who then agreed with him that the hands are a part of the bat. I returned to my box during their very brief conference and let the game continue.

Protest. Right away.

And if you can find out who the assignor is, call them. This is not even umpiring 101... it's umpiring kindergarten.

[Multiple Sports]

Reffing Rev,

Here is my take on this situation...I have been a hs assignor for SB/BB for the past 17 years and officiate a differenent sport at the D1 level. While I don't have all the answers, here is my take.

First the crew got the rule wrong. Not happy about that, yes it is protestable but it is a chance to get those guys in the rule book. What bothers me more is that you were approached in your dugout as they were leaving after the game. Your dugout is your sanctuary. Those guys have no business telling you how they should be approached!!!! Game over move on.....their assigner needs to know more about that than the blown call. Our business is all about people skills, these guys failed.....

Id be in no rush to use these guys the rest of the summer...I can defend judgement, when a rule is kicked I can tell a coach that he is right, but how can I defend that behavior.....Guys like that give officiating at the lower levels a bad name.......

[BoomerSooner]

Concerning your original question..."how to approach an incorrect umpire?", I feel like you handled yourself almost perfectly based on what you've shared. I do have two suggestions, but generally speaking, I would say that what you've described is the model for how to handle questioning an umpire during the game.

My first suggestion is to avoid asking the "You do know..., right?" types of questions. Asking it this way puts the umpire in a defensive mindset. This rule applies to most situations, not just dealing with umpires. For those of us that are married, you can vouch for the fact that when your wife makes a mistake following it with "You do know (fill in the blank), right?" is not a good idea. As an alternative, once he said it hit her fingers, you could have asked back, "Does she get first base?" and let the conversation flow from there.

The second suggestion is rather simple, but maybe one of the most important: Always be mindful of your body language and tone. Earlier I said "based on what you've shared" because I realize we all tell stories based on our own perception of what happened and don't realize that others see things about us that we don't. I'm not saying you did do anything wrong in these areas (such as raising your voice or waving arms or anything like that), but maybe the umpire picked up on something that caused him to feel disrespected. Standing side-by-side is a great way non-confrontational way to position yourself, so kudos on that front.

From the sounds of it, this guy was convinced he was right and my suggestions wouldn't have changed anything, but I'm trying to give you something to use to try to improve on what I think was really well handled on your part in the first place.

Lastly, I agree with the other posters that lodging a protest is the only real tool you have if an umpire is wrong and refuses to acknowledge it. Depending on how protests get handled in your area, most umpires will do just about anything to resolve a protest on the spot. The alternative is to risk having to come back another day to replay the game from the point of the protest (especially since you don't usually get another game fee). I also agree that the umpire had no business coming to you after the game the way he did. If he honestly felt like you disrespected him during the game to the extent that he couldn't let go of it by the end of the game, he should have ejected you. I'm not saying it would have been justified, but if I feel like a coach has done something so egregious that I'll still be upset by it at the end of the game, I've reached the point of letting him/her know it is time to leave.

[chuck chopper]

Around here if BOTH Umpires couldn't get it correct, you should have protested. (Which costs 50$). Then you would contact your League Commissioner after the game. The Commissioner would then contact the UIC (assigner). The UIC cannot possibly take calls directly from all the various leagues we handle at a Manager/Coach level.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chuck chopper

Around here if BOTH Umpires couldn't get it correct, you should have protested. (Which costs 50$). Then you would contact your League Commissioner after the game. The Commissioner would then contact the UIC (assigner). The UIC cannot possibly take calls directly from all the various leagues we handle at a Manager/Coach level.

To start, anyone who charges for a protest should be castrated.

As an umpire, when it got an attitude that they thought they "knew" the rule, I would actually suggest they file a protest.

I tell umpires to not fear a protest, it has a valid position in the officiating of a game. And if one does fear a protest, that may validate the reason a protest occurred since you are not confident of your rules knowledge.

But the one thing I do guarantee umpires is that if they do lose a protest and they are real umpires, they will never miss that ruling again.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, anyone who charges for a protest should be castrated....

Well, that's a bit harsh!

Especially since it is better than the predominate position around here... formal protests are simply not allowed.

[Multiple Sports]

Boomer.....who cares if he felt disrespected.....

1 - The crew kicked the rule.

2 - Then he went into dugout after game ( I realize he to go that way ) and told the coach what he thought of coaches behavior....

I'm tired of that PC crap....umpires got IT WRONG and then he compounds with his big mouth !!!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, that's a bit harsh!

Especially since it is better than the predominate position around here... formal protests are simply not allowed.

[Rant]

I don't give a shit what is predominant anywhere, it is just outright wrong and a display of laziness and/or cowardice on behalf of any tournament committee or umpire staff.

Why should it cost anyone anything to question what is believed to be the misapplication of a rule? They are already paying to be there and the umpire is being paid to get it right. It is part of the game and whether we like to admit it or not, umpires make mistakes and kick rules more often than some think. The participants should have an available remedy when such an instance arises. The umpire is not above the game, yet that is the impression when a protest is rebuffed by those of authority.

Installing roadblocks for the purpose of discouraging the proper procedures of the game is, IMO, unethical.

[/Rant]

[Altor]

Irishmafia, for the most part, I agree with your frustration. However, what do you do when the protests are not made in good faith?

It's a different sport, but I believe this example fits the same dilemma. The NCAA had an issue in track a field for a few years where coaches were protesting the finish results for practically every race, even if it wasn't close. Coaches would have the protest forms filled out before the race and hand them in before the results were official. Sometimes multiple coaches would appeal the same race. There was no penalty for filing an appeal that was denied, so they appealed everything they could.

So, the NCAA started requiring a $100 protest fee. The fee is returned when the protest is upheld. Amazingly, the frivolous protests stopped.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

[Rant]

I don't give a shit what is predominant anywhere, it is just outright wrong and a display of laziness and/or cowardice on behalf of any tournament committee or umpire staff.

Why should it cost anyone anything to question what is believed to be the misapplication of a rule? They are already paying to be there and the umpire is being paid to get it right. It is part of the game and whether we like to admit it or not, umpires make mistakes and kick rules more often than some think. The participants should have an available remedy when such an instance arises. The umpire is not above the game, yet that is the impression when a protest is rebuffed by those of authority.

Installing roadblocks for the purpose of discouraging the proper procedures of the game is, IMO, unethical.

[/Rant]

I would've thought you be even more upset that no protests are allowed. Where payments are required, they are typically returned if the protest is upheld. Ideally, everyone would operate in good faith, but they don't.

Personally, I find the position of not wanting to bother with protests at all to be "just outright wrong and a display of laziness and/or cowardice on behalf of any tournament committee or umpire staff", whereas the deposit is to prevent frivolous or uninformed protests.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I am personally more aggravated by a "no protests allowed" policy than a nuisance fee to discourage frivolous protests. Our state high school association has that "no protests" policy, and I hear about absurd rulings in softball all the time.

I get that there just isn't a good administrative process to handle replaying games, but there really should be some remedy for the teams when officials in any sport grossly misapply rules. Even a partial remedy.

I would much prefer a formal process where 1) the team head coach posts a protest fee (or commits the school to that surcharge), 2) the game officials (like the NCAA process) immediately get a rulebook and look it up, 3) the parties in dispute must each find and cite a specific rule that supports their position, and the vast majority of any disputes would end at that point!! Truly very few NCAA protests get past this point.

Making the team have some skin in the result (protest fee) reduces the frivolous protests; forcing a rulebook review on the spot corrects the majority of myth issues (hands are part of the bat, leaving early on a fly ball is a force out, runners must slide, etc.), as well as corrects most when the officials pull one out of their butt.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Altor

Irishmafia, for the most part, I agree with your frustration. However, what do you do when the protests are not made in good faith?

And just where do they think it is going to go? Do you think a UIC is going to waste time with people who want to act the ass on every little thing? It's just like umpiring a game. How long do you wait to put the clamps down on the coach who wants to bitch and moan about every little thing that happens on the field?

Originally Posted by Dakota

I would've thought you be even more upset that no protests are allowed. Where payments are required, they are typically returned if the protest is upheld. Ideally, everyone would operate in good faith, but they don't.

Personally, I find the position of not wanting to bother with protests at all to be "just outright wrong and a display of laziness and/or cowardice on behalf of any tournament committee or umpire staff", whereas the deposit is to prevent frivolous or uninformed protests.

Demanding a fee for a protest can be just as effective as denying protests altogether. Many team coaches do not walk around with wads of money stuffed in their pocket for a protests.

And I know you have heard me rail against "no protest" tournaments, but the people who complained most likely knew what they were getting into when they paid the entry fee.

Just because someone wants to protest doesn't mean there is anything, but a hesitation to record it in many cases. In some, all it takes is a few minutes to get the UIC to make a judgment and move on with the game.

But that is where the problem starts. Most tournaments are fund-raisers for one group or another and they don't like spending money they don't think is absolutely necessary and in a lot of cases, that is why many tournaments do not have a UIC.