Fair-Foul Question and other questions

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ntxblue

Referencing the second play:

Whatever happened to NOT taking an offensive sub unless it is for the current batter or an existing base runner?

Amen.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ntxblue

Referencing the second play:

Whatever happened to NOT taking an offensive sub unless it is for the current batter or an existing base runner?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Amen.

This wasn't NCAA.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

This wasn't NCAA.

Neither ASA nor NFHS has officially defined what they mean by projected sub - and you will find opinions divided from the newby level up to the state-level guy teaching clinics. I don't know if it's 50-50 ... but I do know that MOST people in my area (Houston, TX) take the prohibition against accepting projected subs to mean that an offensive coach telling you the 2nd or 3rd batter in the inning is going to be subbed for is not a change we should accept... at least until that batter comes up.

I will admit it's certainly not unanimous though. I understand both sides. I just fall on the side of not taking this sub until the batter actually comes up.

[Dakota]

I understand, but the phraseology of "what ever happened to..." implies to me that this is the "right" way. Not true, except in NCAA.

Personally, I will allow any substitute to be entered at any time for any player currently in the game. The change is official at that time. So, if the OC informs me of a change to what would be his fourth batter due up that inning, and only 3 batters bat before there are 3 outs, and then he wants to change his mind about #4, then its "coach, you want to re-enter your starter, correct?"

This has game flow and efficiency advantages and no disadvantages. If the coach does not know the numbers and names of the players on his team, not allowing the changes "at this time" won't fix that.

A projected change means there is an "if" or a "when" that delays the official change in the lineup in there somewhere. In my example, above, if the coach says "If we get to batter #4, I want to...", sorry, coach, no projected changes.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I understand, but the phraseology of "what ever happened to..." implies to me that this is the "right" way. Not true, except in NCAA.

Personally, I will allow any substitute to be entered at any time for any player currently in the game. The change is official at that time. So, if the OC informs me of a change to what would be his fourth batter due up that inning, and only 3 batters bat before there are 3 outs, and then he wants to change his mind about #4, then its "coach, you want to re-enter your starter, correct?"

This has game flow and efficiency advantages and no disadvantages. If the coach does not know the numbers and names of the players on his team, not allowing the changes "at this time" won't fix that.

A projected change means there is an "if" or a "when" that delays the official change in the lineup in there somewhere. In my example, above, if the coach says "If we get to batter #4, I want to...", sorry, coach, no projected changes.

I will add something to this. I took the change when the offensive team came up. I do not ask if this is the first, second or third batter in the inning. When the coach tells me that X is going to bat for Y I accept that change. I don't keep track of which batter is the first one up that inning and I highly doubt that anyone else does either, unless there is an unusual circumstance such as #12 getting called out for leaving early while #6 is in the batters box. In that case now I do make a note that #6 should be the first batter and tell both home and visitors scorekeepers that #6 will be the first scheduled batter.

I do agree with Dakota, that if the coach says "If we get to" then I am not accepting the change until we get to the actual IF referenced.

The rule in question covering "projected substitutions is (was as of 2013 book):3-3-3. The rulebook does not define a projected substitution. To me a projected substitution is the "If" statement.

A defensive substitution can not occur until the actual change is made, because all of the players are actively on the field (unless using the DP/Flex) at the time, therefore a substitution must actually occur at that point.

When the team is on offense, only 1 player is actively at bat at the time, so you can substitute players into the lineup when the ball is dead.

There is nothing in the rule that says an offensive substitution can only be made when the actual batter comes up.

My take on a projected substitution is that the coach is going to make a future change when his team is on defense. For example, the OC says #12 is batting for #24. #24 will re-enter when we go on defense. That is projecting a future substitution.