Pitching question

[Andy]

First of all...I just put this here for discussion and trying to present a different point of view on the way the rule reads.

I posted it a couple of different places because I wanted opinions and discussions from different people that may not read all of the various forums.

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that you, MD, seem so closed minded on this one. Your history has suggested that of someone that sometimes questions the logic and written word of the rule(s) and points out discrepancies. This is one of those situations, in my opinion.

To address Dakota...as described to me, this pitcher did this every pitch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

First of all...I just put this here for discussion and trying to present a different point of view on the way the rule reads.

I posted it a couple of different places because I wanted opinions and discussions from different people that may not read all of the various forums.

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that you, MD, seem so closed minded on this one. Your history has suggested that of someone that sometimes questions the logic and written word of the rule(s) and points out discrepancies. This is one of those situations, in my opinion.

To address Dakota...as described to me, this pitcher did this every pitch.

Sorry if I'm appearing to be closed-minded on this one. It's just that the motion you've described seems pretty clearly illegal. You stated there was a noticable pause. That's what the pitcher is not allowed to do, once she's started.

To Dakota - the answer to your second assumption is not yes. You're talking about a person moving in 3 dimensions. There is no pause during a backswing. To put it in scientific terms - the backswing might momentarily have zero forward velocity (although not zero velocity in every direction) but it never has zero forward acceleration... while the motion described in the OP has both zero velocity and zero acceleration... a noticable pause, or a stop in the delivery.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Sorry if I'm appearing to be closed-minded on this one. It's just that the motion you've described seems pretty clearly illegal. You stated there was a noticable pause. That's what the pitcher is not allowed to do, once she's started.

Rule cite?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

To Dakota - the answer to your second assumption is not yes. You're talking about a person moving in 3 dimensions. There is no pause during a backswing. To put it in scientific terms - the backswing might momentarily have zero forward velocity (although not zero velocity in every direction) but it never has zero forward acceleration... while the motion described in the OP has both zero velocity and zero acceleration... a noticable pause, or a stop in the delivery.

Your response is, well, veering off. The issue is velocity (rearward or forward), not side-to-side, and certainly not acceleration. As you say, it will have zero forward velocity... i.e. it will be stopped as far as the motion being legislated in the rule is concerned. If you are going to go that far, there will always be SOME motion anytime the ball is being held, unless it is being held by a bronze statue.

A backswing is allowed, therefore rearward velocity is allowed. There must, therefore, be a transition from rearward to forward, during which transition, the rear/forward velocity reaches zero... i.e., it stops.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Rule cite?

The rule has been cited multiple times. Including once above by me.

Equating the infinitesimal (literally, btw) time the arm has no forward velocity with a noticeable pause is an incredible stretch to me.... but if you insist on calling them the same thing - then you've just stretched the rules to disallow backswings, not to allow the motion described in the OP. Good luck with that.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rule has been cited multiple times. Including once above by me.

Equating the infinitesimal (literally, btw) time the arm has no forward velocity with a noticeable pause is an incredible stretch to me.... but if you insist on calling them the same thing - then you've just stretched the rules to disallow backswings, not to allow the motion described in the OP. Good luck with that.

I've seen numerous pitchers who take a large backswing that effectively stop at the top of the backswing in a kind of gathering before they begin the windmill. The stopping is very noticeable; it is merely ignored.

The only reason this is deemed illegal is because it is unusual, IMO. If mere stopping between the back motion and the starting of the forward motion was illegal, then the pitchers referenced above would also be illegal.

[jwwashburn]

So, you think stopping should be allowed?

Tell ASA to change the rule.

Since the rule says she MUST NOT STOP, this pitcher is illegal.

[Dakota]

You guys keep excerpting the rule to leave out the "forward motion" part. 6-3-C says she must not stop the forward motion. Since she has not started the forward motion, the forward motion has not stopped.

Now, if she did what was described and then just never delivered the pitch, then that clearly violates the "immediately" delivering the pitch rule 6-3-A.

Again, I don't think 6-3-C applies since the forward motion has never started. It is the forward motion that must not be stopped or reversed.

Therefore, for this to be illegal, it must be judged to be violating 6-3-A in not "immediately delivering the ball to the batter" after making a motion to pitch.

Hence, my reference to the look back rule. How long is "immediately"? The OP says "for a second" and "noticeable pause". Without seeing the pitcher, I'm having a hard time making the absolute ruling (coupled with sneering sarcasm) that some of you seem comfortable with.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I'm sort of curious as to how a pitch can start without a motion to pitch?

This is part of my problem with all rule sets. The rules and interpretations have been bastardized over the years to accommodate the pitcher. Until this began, FP was not always a pitcher's duel