Pitching question

[Andy]

12u ASA tournament this weekend.

RHP steps onto the the pitching plate with the ball in her glove and hands separated. While on the PP, she reaches into her glove, pulls the ball out and holds it against her right hip for a second. After a noticeable pause, she begins her pitching motion. She does not bring her hands together a second time.

Is the act of pausing with the ball on the hip an illegal pitch? What rule (ASA) would you cite?

[jwwashburn]

Pause=stop right?

The pitching motion has to be continuous is the phrase that sticks out here.

I do not have my book in front of me....someone can correct me if I have this wrong.

[RKBUmp]

6-3-A, The pitcher shall not make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering the ball to the batter.

Once the hands came together and separated the pitch has begun and must be immediately delivered.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

6-3-A, The pitcher shall not make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering the ball to the batter.

Once the hands came together and separated the pitch has begun and must be immediately delivered.

Agree with the above. Also, 6-3-C: The pitcher must not make a stop or reversal of the forward motion after separating the hands. This sounds like it's clearly a stop.

[RKBUmp]

She hasn't started forward motion yet according to the post.

[jwwashburn]

But, she has made a motion to pitch as soon as she took her hands apart.

[teebob21]

This is one area where an approved interpretation would be useful. The Rules Supplement uses exactly the same language as 6-3-C. When I read the rule, I interpreted it broadly that neither (1) a stop (of any kind), nor (2) a reversal of the forward motion is permitted.

I can see how someone else may read it more literally as requiring the forward motion to be continuous, without stops or reversals. What about actions that occur between separating the hands, but before the forward motion? In that case, 6-3-D permits the pitcher to drop the arm to the side before beginning the windmill. It does not specify if a brief pause after dropping the arm down or to the rear is illegal.

I still think it's illegal; we just differ on the applicable rule.

[CecilOne]

I think 6.3.a is more applicable than 6.3.c; as it is hard to say there is any "forward" motion.

[RKBUmp]

There are no commas in 6-3-c which would make those independent statements. They are all descriptors of the forward motion. The pitcher may not stop or reverse forward motion once it has started. As for 6-3-d, it is describing a legal back swing prior to starting the forward motion, it is not saying a pitcher may separate the hands and drop the arm to the side and stop.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

There are no commas in 6-3-c which would make those independent statements. They are all descriptors of the forward motion. The pitcher may not stop or reverse forward motion once it has started. As for 6-3-d, it is describing a legal back swing prior to starting the forward motion, it is not saying a pitcher may separate the hands and drop the arm to the side and stop.

Fair enough, 6-3-A it is. That's half the fun of nitpicking these things here on the board, seeing how other umpires read and interpret the rules and their application. I'm curious to hear Andy's followup on the ruling as it happened on the field.

[Andy]

I was the tournament UIC and this particular situation was described to me for discussion. It was not called illegal by the PU on the field, but he and the BU disagreed and brought it to me. I did not see it as this pitcher only pitched for one inning and I was occupied elsewhere.....I ruled it as legal and here is my rationale:

I know what the pitching rules say about a stop or reversal of the forward motion or stopping the motion to pitch. My contention is that neither of these apply. As has been stated, there has been no forward motion, so 6-3-C is out. 6-3-A states that the pitcher can't make a motion to pitch without delivering the ball to the batter. I don't see where that has been violated either. 6-2 defines the starting point of the pitch as the hands coming together and separating, however in the pitch described, her pitching motion has not started until she takes the ball off of her hip and goes into her windup. My rationale for not calling this illegal is that the pitch has started, but her pitching motion has not

[MD Longhorn]

Doesn't matter how many forums you type this in, it's illegal in all of them.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

6-2 defines the starting point of the pitch as the hands coming together and separating, however in the pitch described, her pitching motion has not started until she takes the ball off of her hip and goes into her windup. My rationale for not calling this illegal is that the pitch has started, but her pitching motion has not

Andy, you cannot separate the two. The pitch starts with a motion, that being the act of separating the hands. From that point til the ball is released, the pitcher must maintain continuous motion or she violates 6-3-A.

[MD Longhorn]

He's trying too hard to mix 6-2 with 6-3-C, ignoring that 6-2 and 6-3-A also go together. Further, he keeps tying 6-3-A and omitting the important word "immediately".

[Dakota]

Is a back swing legal? Yes.
Is a stop necessary to have a back swing? Yes.

So, where does the rule state how long the stop at the back of the back swing can be?

And, if you claim "immediately" means "infinitesimally small", explain how the word "immediately" clearly does NOT mean that in the look back rule.

The purpose of these pitching mechanics rules is to not have the batter be deceived as to the start of the pitch and when in the pitching motion to expect the release. Was this deceiving anyone? (e.g. Did she do this sometimes or all the time?)