Illegal pitch video.

[Roger Greene]

I've used it in the past, along with other videos, during a rules clinic. It generated some good discussions,much like those above.

The use of videos in clinics is a big help in keeping the attention of the participants and getting everybody 'on the same page'.

[Andy]

If you are training umpires for girls and womens fast pitch games, this video is probably better than the ones the NFHS put out a few years ago.

Just make sure that you point out what is illegal and how difficult it is to see in real time.

[Cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Do any of you think this might be a good training video for umpires?

Absolutely, keeping in mind what is seen in real time can be very different in slow motion video. Some of these are obvious, especially at the end where the pitcher is outside the 24" pitchers plate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

If you are training umpires for girls and womens fast pitch games, this video is probably better than the ones the NFHS put out a few years ago.

Just make sure that you point out what is illegal and how difficult it is to see in real time.

This cannot be reiterated enough. The umpire needs to watch the pitcher, not search for a reason to call an IP. This happens when you show videos like this and tell the umpire these are IP and must be called.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I can see the no call if you have to question "is she off". that shows you're not sure whether there was a violation. But the question of "is he/she getting an advantage" is not a valid consideration. That shows you're sure there was a violation and not sure of whether an advantage was gained. That thought is not relevant. When you are sure of the illegal pitch, call it.

I included the bit about "advantage" for exactly this reason. Blues who refuse to call obvious IPs because "they aren't gaining any advantage" are part of the headache for the rest of us. I should have been more clear about that. Call em like you see em.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Do any of you think this might be a good training video for umpires?

My 3.5 cents.

The video has some educational value, but due to it's age, it is slightly outdated. The college pitchers has very much changed their style since the creation of this video (and may have as a direct effect of this video). The number of leapers are declining. In the smattering of games that I work (all divisions), I see more textbook draggers in comparison to 2010 (which was the big "crack-down" year).

However, what needs to be replaced is the final title card. None of the "big 3" recognize a "replant" as a pitching violation (I know, the definition of "crop hop" includes the word "replant").
Here is an extra penny: I believe it was a misunderstanding that lead to the phrase: "All leaps includes replants." The pitcher will land, but only to finish the pitch. The ISF recognized this and allows both men and women to leap.

And the extra half cent: I think there is way too much effort and concentration on being outside the 24". If the pitcher starts in the middle of the pitcher's plate, a female pitcher cannot be outside the 24" without leaping (which should be called). Bio-mechanically, it is impossible for someone under the height of 6'5" to drag and deliver a pitch with proper hip placement. However, she can be in violation if she starts on the end of the pitcher's plate. Way easier to concentrate if you see the pitcher slide to the side. The video very much demonstrates my theory.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

However, what needs to be replaced is the final title card. None of the "big 3" recognize a "replant" as a pitching violation (I know, the definition of "crop hop" includes the word "replant").

Then how to you explain ASA 6(FP).3.J? "Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

Since the process cannot start without the pitcher's pivot foot in contact with the PP, to deliver the ball with the pivot foot not in contact with the PP means the pitcher had to "replant" that foot. There is nothing wrong or inaccurate in using the term "replant". If there is any problem, it is with people trying to make it more than it is

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Do any of you think this might be a good training video for umpires?

No, not at all. The videos we normally get to watch are far better than this, and illustrate actual IP's that we should be calling. Most of these, as you've seen from the comments, are so borderline that you've got to freeze-frame to catch them ... and we don't want to be calling those.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller

Absolutely, keeping in mind what is seen in real time can be very different in slow motion video. Some of these are obvious, especially at the end where the pitcher is outside the 24" pitchers plate.

Is she? The pitchers plate that we can't actually see in the video?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

And the extra half cent: I think there is way too much effort and concentration on being outside the 24". If the pitcher starts in the middle of the pitcher's plate, a female pitcher cannot be outside the 24" without leaping (which should be called). Bio-mechanically, it is impossible for someone under the height of 6'5" to drag and deliver a pitch with proper hip placement.

Completely and utterly untrue. I would say that a 24" violation is very rare, especially from the middle. But it's not bio-mechanically impossible at all. We had one pitcher 2-3 years back that took advantage of local umpires who just refuse to call IP's and pitched in such a way that her whole body was left (from her POV) of the 24" lane when she release. As in ... almost a balk in baseball, she went so far toward the first base line.

And she started on the THIRD base side of the plate.

Got called for IP's on the first 5 consecutive pitches to begin her district tourney and was pulled, never to pitch again in that tourney.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Completely and utterly untrue. I would say that a 24" violation is very rare, especially from the middle. But it's not bio-mechanically impossible at all. We had one pitcher 2-3 years back that took advantage of local umpires who just refuse to call IP's and pitched in such a way that her whole body was left (from her POV) of the 24" lane when she release. As in ... almost a balk in baseball, she went so far toward the first base line.

And she started on the THIRD base side of the plate.

Got called for IP's on the first 5 consecutive pitches to begin her district tourney and was pulled, never to pitch again in that tourney.

Then she was a very rare individual who could throw a pitch with either a) her hips complete square to the plate or b) she pushed off with such force to drag the entire 24" of the pitcher's plate, not lose momentum, pivot (to close her hips) and release the pitch. Either way, she is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Then she was a very rare individual who could throw a pitch with either a) her hips complete square to the plate or b) she pushed off with such force to drag the entire 24" of the pitcher's plate, not lose momentum, pivot (to close her hips) and release the pitch. Either way, she is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

Definitely agree she was the exception. a) she was definitely facing the batter ... if not left of the batter ... upon release. If you took a picture of her at the moment of release from home plate, she would appear to be facing you with her arm outstretched toward you. b) yup, but that part's not rare... the little drag marks most pitchers make are more than 2 feet long. c) she didn't close her hips - she was wide open (toward home) at the release.

It was a bizarre motion. I think she did lose momentum because of it. The other thing that was also illegal is that her arm was often out away from her body (wrist further than the elbow)... almost Kent Tekulve-ish. I bet she would have been pretty good without the odd motion. As it was, it was ONLY the odd motion that gave her any advantage - she wasn't all that fast, and her pitches, while strikes, were all hittable... once batters got used to the odd motion (which should have been IP'd in the first place), she got hit.

[Cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Is she? The pitchers plate that we can't actually see in the video?

Of course she is! Please don't tell me you wouldn't call that?!