Bench clearing brawl

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Taking names: OK
Calling for help: OK
Declaring double forfeit: OK

After that: Not your decision.

No, but it's always his decision whether he stays and works or not.

And, besides, the TD asked, didn't he?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

No, but it's always his decision whether he stays and works or not.

And, besides, the TD asked, didn't he?

Exactly. And this is exactly why I'm conflicted on it a bit. TD shouldn't have asked. (Heck, he should have done the right thing without having to consult the umpire).

[jmkupka]

I'm wondering if the TD was not asking him if he'd reconsider letting the team play (which, as you state, is not his pervue), but instead reconsidering the ejections (and resulting forfeit) which the tournament mandates results in the following game(s) being missed.

If the second case, it's of course a no-brainer.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

I'm wondering if the TD was not asking him if he'd reconsider letting the team play (which, as you state, is not his pervue), but instead reconsidering the ejections (and resulting forfeit) which the tournament mandates results in the following game(s) being missed.

If the second case, it's of course a no-brainer.

Sue didn't read like that, just a weak TD.

[Andy]

A bit more background.....

The TD volunteers with the Special Olympics program in the area. He started this benefit tournament a year ago with the goal of raising some money for SO. He is not an experienced TD and is basically making it up as he goes from his tournament experience as a player.

He is also a player with the local SP league and knew quite a few of the players. One of the teams involved in the brawl was a team from the local area and the other team was from another area of the state.

I also hold a high position with our state association ASA umpire group, as some of you know. TD knew this as well...even though I was not acting as a UIC for this particular tournament, just a working umpire. That is the reason he was asking me about reinstating the team.

He was trying to be a nice guy for the teams.....I felt like I had to take a stand. The statement about leaving was not a threat...just a statement of what the consequenses of his decision would be.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

I'm wondering if the TD was not asking him if he'd reconsider letting the team play (which, as you state, is not his pervue), but instead reconsidering the ejections (and resulting forfeit) which the tournament mandates results in the following game(s) being missed.

If the second case, it's of course a no-brainer.

I'm thinking this had nothing to do with either. This was a tournament; meaning winning teams advance, losing teams go home (or possibly into a loser's bracket). The bracket advances with next games for teams; when there are teams that advance.

It is very much unlikely (in my experience) there was a written tournament rule requiring ejected players to sit any future games. Common league practice, common for illegal bats, maybe; doesn't happen in tournaments for misconduct.

I personally suspect the question from the TD was more along the lines of wanting a next game for the OTHER team, the one losing a game as a bye in a double forfeit, where no team advances to play the next team in the bracket. Since teams gripe about the number of games, I suspect that was all the TD was wanting to happen; leave someone to play the next game.

[CecilOne]

Would the purpose of fund raising for charity be a factor in the decisions for any of you?
If so, how?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Would the purpose of fund raising for charity be a factor in the decisions for any of you?
If so, how?

Nope.

Besides, money's already collected.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Would the purpose of fund raising for charity be a factor in the decisions for any of you?
If so, how?

Yes, I would be that much more rigid in any response or actions. Both teams go home with the admonition they may not be invited back. Also, knowing where these teams play, I would notify their respective league of their actions. I wouldn't expect a reply, but it makes them aware of a situation where a group of AA cannot control themselves at a charity event. How do you think they will react under real competitive situations?

With the inexperienced TD, he needs to learn REAL QUICK that being a "nice guy" in adult softball is a losing proposition for everyone, but the persons acting like an ass. And he needs to heed the advice of experience, but if the TD elects to be the "nice guy", the TD can do it without me.

Don't care what the situation, they are supposed to be adults and I would expect them to act like adults or go home, period.