Interference?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

From another board...

Runners on second and third, less than two outs. Batter bunts the ball down the first base line. The ball is rolling in foul territory, and just as the first baseman reaches down to touch it to make it a foul ball, the batter-runner runs by the first baseman and pushes him down to the ground. First baseman can no longer touch the ball as it continues to roll foul, and then the ball reaches and touches the inside corner of the first base bag after the batter-runner has overrun and touched the bag. Both runners score on the play.

What have you got? (Post ruleset with your answer)

Batted ball is fair until foul, so the BR impeded the fielder trying to field a batted ball.

BR is no longer in the game after the UC push.

[MD Longhorn]

I think the heart of the issue has nothing to do with the push and whether it's malicious or not, so we'll probably be more productive ignoring that part.

Cecil - if it's interference, it's dead at the moment of interference ... so it never became fair.

My initial answer was foul ball. TC has me doubting myself now.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think the heart of the issue has nothing to do with the push and whether it's malicious or not, so we'll probably be more productive ignoring that part.

Cecil - if it's interference, it's dead at the moment of interference ... so it never became fair.

Yes to both.

[tcannizzo]

Upon further review, I am going to modify my answer.
Rule 1 Definitions: Foul Ball
D. While over foul territory, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player attempting to field a batted ball.

This comes back to what "play" would have been made if F3 got the ball at that point. None. So it is not INT.

7.6.K only allows INT on a foul fly ball.
Contradicted/muddied by 8.2.F.1: When the batter-runner interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

So, Foul Ball, with an ejected participant.

[MD Longhorn]

I don't see an equivalent in NFHS or NCAA (unless I'm blind).

[MD Longhorn]

Oops. NCAA 11.5 - Foul Ball
A legally batted ball that:
11.5.7 Is in foul territory when a base runner in foul territory interferes with a defensive player's attempt to field a batted ball.

OK... just need NFHS now.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Rich Ives on the Baseball Forum addressed this in a manner that I think would also be applicable to fast pitch softball and baseball under all rule sets (ASA, USSSA, NFHS, NCAA, and OBR).

1) The batted ball is not a fly ball.

2) The ball is neither a Foul Ball or a Fair Ball just prior to the contact between B/R-1 and F3 who was attempting to make a play on the Ball.

3) The Ball was touching in Foul Territory when B/R-1 made contact with F3. who was attempting to make a play on the Ball.

4) B/R-1 has committed Interference with F3. The Ball becomes Dead immediately. B/R/-1 is out because of committing Interference. All runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the B/R-1's Interference.

5) B/R-1 can be ejected for Malicious Contact and/or Unsportsmanlike Conduct in some rules sets.

MTD, Sr.

[tcannizzo]

2) The ball is neither a Foul Ball or a Fair Ball just prior to the contact between B/R-1 and F3 who was attempting to make a play on the Ball.

There are only two definitions in the books that I own, a fair ball and a foul ball. What is the third definition? And what book is it in?

4) B/R-1 has committed Interference with F3. The Ball becomes Dead immediately. B/R/-1 is out because of committing Interference. All runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the B/R-1's Interference.

The definition of "play" includes an attempt to retire an offensive player.
What "play" would occur by touching a ground ball in foul territory?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

There are only two definitions in the books that I own, a fair ball and a foul ball. What is the third definition? And what book is it in?



The definition of "play" includes an attempt to retire an offensive player.
What "play" would occur by touching a ground ball in foul territory?

Item (2): A ball that is rolling on the ground along the 1B Foul Line in Foul Territory between HP and 1B. At what point do you judge it to be a Fair Ball or a Foul Ball? Since this is the Softball Forum read NFHS Softball R2-S20-A1 and R2-25-A1; NCAA Softball Rules, ASA, and USSSA rules read the same as the NFHS Softball Rules.


Item (4): Would not a defensive player attempting to make a Ball, that is neither Fair nor Foul, a Foul Ball an attempt to play the Ball?

MTD, Sr.


2-20-1 and 2-25-1

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rich Ives on the Baseball Forum addressed this...

3) The Ball was touching in Foul Territory when B/R-1 made contact with F3. who was attempting to make a play on the Ball.

4) B/R-1 has committed Interference with F3. The Ball becomes Dead immediately. B/R/-1 is out because of committing Interference. All runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the B/R-1's Interference.

5) B/R-1 can be ejected for Malicious Contact and/or Unsportsmanlike Conduct in some rules sets.

MTD, Sr.

All due respect, how is this different from the case that I posted in my recent thread "Sharing things that I've learned here…", in which I was told that it is an immediate foul ball as soon as the interference happens, thereby no out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

A batted ball has no given status until an event involving the ball as listed in the definitions of Fair or Foul occurs.

8.2.F.1 clearly notes the BR is out if interfering with a defender attempting to field a batted ball.

A batted ball is any pitched ball which contacts the bat and "lands" in either fair or foul territory. Please note that it states where the ball lands, not that is applies a status to the ball in doing so.

Yes, this is a different requirement for INT than that applied to a runner, but it is what it is and I suspect it is maintained as such to address the scenario prevented in the OP

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Oops. NCAA 11.5 - Foul Ball
A legally batted ball that:
11.5.7 Is in foul territory when a base runner in foul territory interferes with a defensive player's attempt to field a batted ball.

OK... just need NFHS now.

It's in there Mike. See 2-25-1e. Practically word-for-word with what's written in NCAA and ASA.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Upon further review, I am going to modify my answer.
Rule 1 Definitions: Foul Ball
D. While over foul territory, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player attempting to field a batted ball.

This comes back to what "play" would have been made if F3 got the ball at that point. None. So it is not INT.

7.6.K only allows INT on a foul fly ball.
Contradicted/muddied by 8.2.F.1: When the batter-runner interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

So, Foul Ball, with an ejected participant.

The only pdf rulebook I have here is 2005. It's definition of rule 1 reads while over foul territory, a RUNNER interferes with. Assuming you're quoting a more current version, this solves some of the problem in that thread. 8-2-F is still a problem. Does 8-7-J still say fair batted ball?
My biggest problem remains that if you don't just call this a foul ball, it's incredibly weird that you do still call it a foul ball when the runner on third does exactly the same thing. And I can't believe anyone is seriously advocating for actually calling it a fair ball on the field.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by youngump

Does 8-7-J still say fair batted ball?

ASA 2014
8.7.J, When a runner interferes:
1. With a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball or a foul fly ball, or
2. With a fielder attempting to throw the ball, or
3. With a thrown ball.