Batting Out of Order, Volume 2

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by Andy

It comes down to dealing with the BOO appeal at the time it is appealed.

If it's two pitches later and B2 is no longer on base, she goes into the batter's box and assumes the count. Rule on the appeal, fix it, move on.

I have to disagree due to the rule I stated earlier. So the DC comes to you after the first pitch and tells you b3 is BOO. You tell them no because a pitch is thrown and because b2 is a bases she is skipped without penalty. Next pitch is wild and she scores. Are you then going to put her up to bat, assuming the count. This doesn't make sense.

In this sitch you have to enforce 7-2-4 on the pitch that made B3 legal and that is the first pitch.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by vcblue

I have to disagree due to the rule I stated earlier. So the DC comes to you after the first pitch and tells you b3 is BOO. You tell them no because a pitch is thrown and because b2 is a bases she is skipped without penalty. Next pitch is wild and she scores. Are you then going to put her up to bat, assuming the count. This doesn't make sense.

In this sitch you have to enforce 7-2-4 on the pitch that made B3 legal and that is the first pitch.

My post was in reference to the time of the BOO appeal.

If the initial appeal is not made until after two pitches and B2 has scored and is no longer on base, then she would be put into the box as the proper batter.

It comes down to: Where is B2 at the time of the appeal? On base or in the dugout?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Andy

My post was in reference to the time of the BOO appeal.

If the initial appeal is not made until after two pitches and B2 has scored and is no longer on base, then she would be put into the box as the proper batter.

It comes down to: Where is B2 at the time of the appeal? On base or in the dugout?

I think you're wrong on this and it's not that others are having trouble following what you're saying. The batting order is not changed by a denied BOO appeal it's changed by the first pitch legal or illegal. When the appeal happens after a pitch it is denied. The first pitch legalizes the former at bat and results immediately in a change to the batting order.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I think you're wrong on this and it's not that others are having trouble following what you're saying. The batting order is not changed by a denied BOO appeal it's changed by the first pitch legal or illegal. When the appeal happens after a pitch it is denied. The first pitch legalizes the former at bat and results immediately in a change to the batting order.

I think what you're missing is that while the first pitch to B3 legalizes the previous at bats - it does not legalize B3! And if B1 was the previous batter ... B3 is not the correct current batter.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think what you're missing is that while the first pitch to B3 legalizes the previous at bats - it does not legalize B3! And if B1 was the previous batter ... B3 is not the correct current batter.

If B1 was the previous batter and B2 is on base and B5 stands up and takes a pitch, then B3 is the correct batter. If during B5's illegal at bat B2 scores and then the defense appeals that B5 is the incorrect batter, they are correct. The appeal is upheld and B3 assumes B5's count.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

If B1 was the previous batter and B2 is on base and B5 stands up and takes a pitch, then B3 is the correct batter. If during B5's illegal at bat B2 scores and then the defense appeals that B5 is the incorrect batter, they are correct. The appeal is upheld and B3 assumes B5's count.

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

I'll phrase the question this way: Can a legal batter be "illegalized" during her at bat? There is no doubt (at least to me) that B3 was legal when she came to bat. But does she become illegal the moment B2 scores (or is picked off, or steps off early, or whatever)?

Or, once she entered the batter's box legally is she entitled to stay?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

I might conceivably call for B2 to bat if I did not know she was the player who just came off the bases, and I didn't go to the official scorekeeper to help me with the situation. But since I do check the official book when I work out a batting-out-of-order appeal, I would hope that the scorer would enlighten me to the fact that B2 was the runner who started out at third base. Then I would call for B3 to bat.

Remember, at the moment of the first pitch to B5, that legalized B1, so B2 should be the proper batter. But at that moment, B2 was on base, so she gets passed over and B3 becomes the proper batter. Subsequent play while B5 is up to bat doesn't change that fact, so an appeal after that first pitch to her has no bearing on the situation. There is no rule or interpretation that says a batter who has becomes the proper batter (in THIS scenario, B3) can suddenly become improper during subsequent play.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

I'm not sure what "this scenario" is. If you mean mine, I'm putting B3 at the plate because she is the proper batter (7-2-c-4 in a fairly old version of the book). They appeal that B5 is incorrect. I confirm that B5 is the incorrect batter and since it was discovered while B5 was at bat I send B5 back to the dugout and bring out B3.
Think of it this way, the question is not: who should be batting? Rather it is who should have been batting. Let's say B5 instead of being caught while at bat is caught after hitting a triple which scores b2. Are you saying that since B2 has scored at the time of the appeal that B2 is out for letting B5 bat in her spot instead of B3. And that B3 is now the correct batter?

(Interestingly, the NFHS rule reads:
When several players bat out of order before discovery so that a player's
time at bat occurs while she is a runner. Such player remains on base, but
she is NOT out as a batter.
So in my scenario, since only one batter batted out of order such that b2's turn at bat came while she was on base, I'll have to call her out
)

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

Because the rules say a pitch to the next batter, not the next correct batter.