Trick play?

[LIUmp]

ASA rules. R1 on 2nd. Count 2-1. Next pitch is a ball. B2 then takes off for first, defense throws ball around, R1 comes around to score, B2 is standing on 2nd. Umpires said they called B2 back to the plate to bat and allowed run to score. Right call?

Wasn't there a rule clarification or case play about something very similar?

[roadking]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

ASA rules. R1 on 2nd. Count 2-1. Next pitch is a ball. B2 then takes off for first, defense throws ball around, R1 comes around to score, B2 is standing on 2nd. Umpires said they called B2 back to the plate to bat and allowed run to score. Right call?

Wasn't there a rule clarification or case play about something very similar?

ASA I believe it would be a dead ball interference call, if the plays intent was to cause confusion to the defense. Unfortunately I'm speaking off the top of my head, I can't site a rule, with ASA there's a interference call for purposely confusing the defense.

[RKBUmp]

The ASA clarification that came out a couple of years ago was if the play caused obvious confusion to call time and bring the batter back to bat and put the runner back at the base they were on. Do a search on here, was a huge discussion on it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

ASA rules. R1 on 2nd. Count 2-1. Next pitch is a ball. B2 then takes off for first,...

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The ASA clarification that came out a couple of years ago was if the play caused obvious confusion to call time and bring the batter back to bat and put the runner back at the base they were on. Do a search on here, was a huge discussion on it.

Without trying to look it up, IIRC the ASA "ruling" which caused so much discussion / controversy here was because they wanted the umpire to kill the ball at the point my quote of the OP ends, as preventative umpiring to avoid the potential of confusion.

Did this ever make it to the status of a case play?

It seems to me the proper thing would be for the umpire to declare "That's only ball 3" and let the players take if from there.

There is an argument for interference here, if the batter drew the throw. I can't see an interference call based on general confusion, though. It is a live ball and the runner does have a right to attempt to advance.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Until that ruling, the ASA position was simple and understandable. The defense is/was responsible to know the situation (count, outs, etc.), has coaches that should be telling them what plays to make and when, and has every opportunity to make an easy out by making a play on the runners that are in jeopardy that we shouldn't take away. Runners that advance due to the defense not knowing the situation have stolen a base; a batter that is still at-bat is returned to complete their at-bat. It wasn't interference, and the play stood.

The new "official" ruling contradicts every other prevailing philosophy, so hard to say what is right, anymore.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

ASA rules. R1 on 2nd. Count 2-1. Next pitch is a ball. B2 then takes off for first, defense throws ball around, R1 comes around to score, B2 is standing on 2nd. Umpires said they called B2 back to the plate to bat and allowed run to score. Right call?

Wasn't there a rule clarification or case play about something very similar?

Just where and why is the defense throwing the ball anywhere, but back to the pitcher on a supposed walk and a runner on 2B?

Nonetheless, I'm a firm believer you do not coach the teams and let it play out. The most the umpire should do is direct the batter to the box and rule a strike if not prepared to hit within 10 seconds. But that is just my opinion.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just where and why is the defense throwing the ball anywhere, but back to the pitcher on a supposed walk and a runner on 2B?

That's what I was wondering. If the defense is throwing the ball around in this scenario, shame on it. Where would the first throw go? If the batter is trying to fool the defense into thinking it's Ball Four, then the catcher should simply be tossing the ball back to the pitcher. The only possible play I could envision is a pick-off back to second base, and the batter's action has no bearing on that.

If I were the PU, I would simply say, "That's Ball Three." No different than saying, "Batter's Out," when she takes off for first base on an uncaught third strike but she cannot advance. I don't consider that coaching; coaching would be saying something like, "Catcher, don't throw the ball since she can't advance."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If I were the PU, I would simply say, "That's Ball Three." No different than saying, "Batter's Out," when she takes off for first base on an uncaught third strike but she cannot advance. I don't consider that coaching; coaching would be saying something like, "Catcher, don't throw the ball since she can't advance."

Neither would I, but that isn't what has been offered. To me, calling time and stopping play so no one's feeling are hurt could be considered coaching as you may be depriving one or both teams the opportunity to advance/retire runners within the confines of the rules.