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-   -   Runner out or safe (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/97195-runner-out-safe.html)

Andy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 921906)
Initial play is irrelevant to the scenario in the OP.
I'm going to ask you to explain this.

Initial play (as defined in FED rules) is the centerpoint of this whole play.

CecilOne Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 922084)
--- if the ball hit R1, and then R1 and F4 collide... don't we have obstruction (and likely a quite pissed off coach!)?
Obviously for the newbies you mean if F4 hindered the runner!
The OP implies already reaching 2nd.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy (Post 922111)
I'm going to ask you to explain this.

Initial play (as defined in FED rules) is the centerpoint of this whole play.
It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

shagpal Tue Feb 11, 2014 01:12am
pull the word "act" on these boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 922250)
It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

shagpal Tue Feb 18, 2014 03:23am
OK, I found this. comment if you think this does or does not apply.

this reads as an initial play per the casebook 2.47.3B.

in this case, it states that if the ball deflects off the pitcher, it is still considered an initial play. however the case refers to a runner contacting the fielder after a deflected ball. it is not addressing a runner being struck by that deflected ball.

per 2.47.3B, if it is deflected off of any fielder other than the pitcher, it is no longer an initial play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 922250)
It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Feb 18, 2014 07:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal (Post 923404)
OK, I found this. comment if you think this does or does not apply.

this reads as an initial play per the casebook 2.47.3B.

in this case, it states that if the ball deflects off the pitcher, it is still considered an initial play. however the case refers to a runner contacting the fielder after a deflected ball. it is not addressing a runner being struck by that deflected ball.

per 2.47.3B, if it is deflected off of any fielder other than the pitcher, it is no longer an initial play.
Again, and again and again.........there is no interference with the fielder, so the initial play issue is irrelevant.

MD Longhorn Tue Feb 18, 2014 09:35am
I'm stunned that this thread has become 4 pages of actual umpires (not fans and coaches) who don't see the glaring difference between interfering with a fielder and getting struck by a ball (or interfering with a ball). They are treated completely differently.

shagpal Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:55am
who said interference? there is no "act". didn't you take everyone on that road before?

in the casebook, there was contact w/ the fielder, so that was the act. this is a deflected ball, but the casebook calls it an "initial play". let you guys reconcile that.

I just posted what I found. I don't even work HS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 923411)
Again, and again and again.........there is no interference with the fielder, so the initial play issue is irrelevant.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 923422)
I'm stunned that this thread has become 4 pages of actual umpires (not fans and coaches) who don't see the glaring difference between interfering with a fielder and getting struck by a ball (or interfering with a ball). They are treated completely differently.
Apparently, it is a reading comprehension thing. :)


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