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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:55pm
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Unreported player called out for interference when switching batter's boxes

NCAA ruleset: An unreported substitute comes to the plate as the batter. She bunts two foul balls from the LH batter's box. While F1 is in position to deliver the next pitch, the batter enters the LH batters box. She (B1) then steps across home plate in front of the catcher to take a position in the RH batter's box. She does not request time.

Three questions:
1. Is the unreported player out, and considered in the game? (Rules 8.3.3.3.2 and 11.21.1)
2. With the 10-second count running, is it good "preventative umpiring" to grant time when we see the batter obviously moving across the plate to swing with 2 strikes, or do we follow the example given in AR 10.18.2 (keep the count alive when the batter leaves the box) and take the free out? (I like free outs. )
3. Is this different in ASA? (Been away from ASA for a while)

Last edited by teebob21; Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 04:49pm. Reason: I like free outs.
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 03:48pm
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I may be in the minority, but I dont see that as preventive umpiring I see it as an umpire inserting themselves into the game. Our job is not to protect a team from committing a rules infraction, it is to administer the rules of the game as they are written.
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 04:29pm
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ncaa handles an unreported player as an appeal. asa handles it as a protest.

the batter is just out for switching boxes. theres nothing to prevent. she is out by rule.

I suggest you get the umpire handbook of softball rule differences.

http://csuw.arbitersports.com/Groups...ifferences.pdf
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 04:40pm
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RKB, I agree with you completely, although I try to be preventative when I can. In my early days, as a younger ump, I frequently found myself inserting myself into the game (or being accused of it) by enforcing rules as written. Being picky about the defensive obstruction rule and slappers stepping out past the front of the batter's box are two examples where the call was made correctly and everyone wanted to bitch about it.

Shag, if that's the John Bennett book, it's been ordered but not received. I would question that NCAA only handles it as an appeal. I cited 8.3.3.3.2 specifically because in that case, the improper player is out + in the game. If, as you said, she is just out, what is her status?

If the defense throws the next pitch, then she is in the game when/if it is appealed, and would be out if she was on base. All other play stands. (8.3.3.3.3)

I apologize if these questions are dumb; I'm working college frequently for the first time in a long time, and "paperwork" rules always get the better of me when on the field. They never seem to happen quite in the orderly fashion the rulesets spell out.

Last edited by teebob21; Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 04:51pm.
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 04:52pm
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yeah, that is JB's book.

in ncaa, depends on which side snitches out the unreported player. but in your OP, there was no appeal of that. also in your OP, she had not finished her at bat.

if she switches boxes with pitcher ready to pitch, she is out anyways by rule 11.22.17

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
Shag, if that's the John Bennett book, it's been ordered but not received. I would question that NCAA only handles it as an appeal. I cited 8.3.3.3.2 specifically because in that case, the improper player is out + in the game.
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Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 05:00pm
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these are not dumb questions, but RU taking ncaa sup test? just answer per the question. don't go changing the sitch. if you need help over there, ask Andy or Emily, or even Bartling

when working your games, make a copy of appendix b page 199 of 2014 rulebook and put that in your lineup card holder. it will make life alot easier. also keep a copy of the incident report, in case it turns into an ejection.

You can buy Bennett's book at your assoc meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post

If the defense throws the next pitch, then she is in the game when/if it is appealed, and would be out if she was on base. All other play stands. (8.3.3.3.3)

I apologize if these questions are dumb; I'm working college frequently for the first time in a long time, and "paperwork" rules always get the better of me when on the field. They never seem to happen quite in the orderly fashion the rulesets spell out.

Last edited by shagpal; Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 05:06pm.
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 02:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
these are not dumb questions, but RU taking ncaa sup test? just answer per the question. don't go changing the sitch. if you need help over there, ask Andy or Emily, or even Bartling
Shag, funny you should ask. I will be taking the SUP test, but was not working on it when I posted. Is there a similar question? I was just working on the substitution rules at home when I came across a couple rules that made me scratch my head.

We had our meeting a couple weeks ago, and I've been reading up since. One of the guys highly recommended another rules difference compliation, but I forgot to jot down the name. I've got the JB book coming. Thanks!
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
One of the guys highly recommended another rules difference compliation, but I forgot to jot down the name. I've got the JB book coming. Thanks!
Probably this free one: http://downloads.asasoftball.com/ump...sRev3Final.pdf

In the past, not as inclusive as John's book, but still valuable.
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Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 09:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post

I'm working college frequently for the first time in a long time, and "paperwork" rules always get the better of me when on the field. They never seem to happen quite in the orderly fashion the rulesets spell out.
Operating under the assumption that "they [will] never happen in quite the orderly fashion the rulesets spell out" makes, IMO, the following from the 2012 SUP Manual such a valuable piece of advice.....
"Absolute knowledge of every facet of every applicable rule has to be within a umpire's immediate recall".

There are 8 different situations in 8.3.3 that could rear their ugly head in a game. Same for 8.3.2 and 8.3.4, and 8 different effects for each...some with penalty some without. Take Shag's advice......use that extra lineup card holder for carrying a copy of the Improper Player chart in one of your ball bags.
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