The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:02am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
that twirling hand gesture can also mean "same play", as in "infield fly" AGAIN. we used to use that in slowpitch, but haven't much since working fastpitch.
Possibly, but highly unlikely given the timing of when the gesture was given. It happened right when someone asked where the pitch was.

And frankly, I've never seen that taught as a signal to partners, neither in baseball nor softball. Sure, it could have been something worked out at pregame. But giving it in the middle of a defensive conference, and right after the question from the stands? It clearly was perceived as an answer to that question.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Possibly, but highly unlikely given the timing of when the gesture was given. It happened right when someone asked where the pitch was.

And frankly, I've never seen that taught as a signal to partners, neither in baseball nor softball. Sure, it could have been something worked out at pregame. But giving it in the middle of a defensive conference, and right after the question from the stands? It clearly was perceived as an answer to that question.
Don't think it was possible it could have been anything but a response to the AA behind the backstop.

Then again, I've never heard of such a signal. Maybe we should just move to ASL for everything we do
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 372
this may have been taught by that south african sign language interpeter during obamas speech at the mandela wake.

the twirling finger means what? screw you? or would that be the middle finger?

what is the correct way? please Irish, inquiring minds want to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Don't think it was possible it could have been anything but a response to the AA behind the backstop.

Then again, I've never heard of such a signal. Maybe we should just move to ASL for everything we do
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 12:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 173
My association's softball trainer uses that downpointing circle signal to remind BU that the bases are now loaded and that PU ain't going anywhere. I think his using it just after a spectator hectoring question was only coincidence.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:15pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
My association's softball trainer uses that downpointing circle signal to remind BU that the bases are now loaded and that PU ain't going anywhere.
Since when (in softball anyway) does the PU not go anywhere with the bases loaded?
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Since when (in softball anyway) does the PU not go anywhere with the bases loaded?
Oh, I don't know... I've had partners like that!

(But, then, they didn't go anywhere any other time, either!)
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fremont, NH
Posts: 1,386
I only watched the short clip that was posted. After ball four with the bases loaded, the PU never removed his mask to watch the runner touch home.

I saw the coach approach from the 3rd base side, but at no time did I see the PU call time. Can't tell if he was asked for time or not.

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I don't know how many of those things would be considered mandatory or perhaps the informality of the game lent it to be that way.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Central, FL
Posts: 1,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
that twirling hand gesture can also mean "same play", as in "infield fly" AGAIN. we used to use that in slowpitch, but haven't much since working fastpitch.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 372
it must be for you the middle finger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 07:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
the twirling finger means what? screw you? or would that be the middle finger?
what is the correct way? please Irish, inquiring minds want to know.
I would show you, but my ASL doesn't translate well on line
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 08:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 372


Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
I would show you, but my ASL doesn't translate well on line
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:48am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.
I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants.
I that true in all codes?
I still call "play" after a time out and some dead ball situations.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?
If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:26pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".
It's a timing thing. When you visibly put the ball in play, doesn't it happen a second or two after the pitcher steps on the plate? You don't do it simultaneously to when she does, do you? So, technically, the violation occurred before you had the opportunity to put it in play, did it not?

The norm around here is to physically put the ball in play at the beginning of the game, and hardly ever after that. It took me a while to get used to that.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.
Just worry about stopping the pitcher from starting early or prior to a batter being set. Most folks on the field are often in a similar rhythm and it is often unnecessary. More likely an issue in SP, but do you hear umpires directing teams to play on every pitch since the ball is always dead at the end of the previous play or pitch?

If they are waiting on it or you have something that calls for the umpire to direct the teams to play, tell them to play. Otherwise, only worry about it when you need to worry about it.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
75 free throws in a game.....by one team Rock Chalk Basketball 19 Sat Jan 12, 2008 03:13pm
Throws his glove then throws ball to DBT BigGuy Baseball 10 Wed Apr 18, 2007 03:40pm
2 Technicals on Team A... How many shots for Team B? bradfordwilkins Basketball 8 Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:29am
Wrong team throws the ball in tnroundballref Basketball 9 Fri Sep 12, 2003 08:18am
Wrong team throws in ReadyToRef Basketball 1 Wed Apr 17, 2002 08:44am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1