Illegal pitch?

[RKBUmp]

Worked an entry leval tournament this weekend, 10's, 12's, and a few 14's generally C level teams, a few B level at best. Had a 12 pitcher this weekend do something I have never seen before. About 30% of the time she would step onto the pitching plate, turn her feet about 45 degrees to the pitching plate and then rotate her hips and shoulders to about in line with the SS and 1/2 way between home and 1st base. The rule states the shoulders must be in line with 1st and 3rd base, but how much if any do we allow the shoulders to be turned? And if it is illegal, is it the plate umpires or base umpires call? Its visible from the plate, but certainly much more pronounced from the field.

Talked to several of the other umpires at the complex and got mixed reviews. Some felt that as long as when she initially stepped on her shoulders were in line she was fine, others agreed it was probably illegal.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Worked an entry leval tournament this weekend, 10's, 12's, and a few 14's generally C level teams, a few B level at best. Had a 12 pitcher this weekend do something I have never seen before. About 30% of the time she would step onto the pitching plate, turn her feet about 45 degrees to the pitching plate and then rotate her hips and shoulders to about in line with the SS and 1/2 way between home and 1st base. The rule states the shoulders must be in line with 1st and 3rd base, but how much if any do we allow the shoulders to be turned? And if it is illegal, is it the plate umpires or base umpires call? Its visible from the plate, but certainly much more pronounced from the field.

Talked to several of the other umpires at the complex and got mixed reviews. Some felt that as long as when she initially stepped on her shoulders were in line she was fine, others agreed it was probably illegal.

Direction of facing when "Initially stepped on" is irrelevant. "In line with 1st and 3rd base" is judgment; intended to prevent invisible sight angles.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Worked an entry leval tournament this weekend, 10's, 12's, and a few 14's generally C level teams, a few B level at best. Had a 12 pitcher this weekend do something I have never seen before. About 30% of the time she would step onto the pitching plate, turn her feet about 45 degrees to the pitching plate and then rotate her hips and shoulders to about in line with the SS and 1/2 way between home and 1st base. The rule states the shoulders must be in line with 1st and 3rd base, but how much if any do we allow the shoulders to be turned? And if it is illegal, is it the plate umpires or base umpires call? Its visible from the plate, but certainly much more pronounced from the field.

Talked to several of the other umpires at the complex and got mixed reviews. Some felt that as long as when she initially stepped on her shoulders were in line she was fine, others agreed it was probably illegal.

Without actually seeing this, I would consider this an illegal pitch. The reason is I feel the pitcher is in fact trying to delay (intentionally or otherwise) the sight line of the pitch for the batter, which is the intent of the rule as CecilOne pointed out. The position may also allow more rotation of the hips during the pitching motion which may increase the velocity of the pitch.

With all of that said, I still feel it is a HTBT play because without actually seeing it I really could not be 100% sure on the call.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The reason is I feel the pitcher is in fact trying to delay (intentionally or otherwise) the sight line of the pitch for the batter, which is the intent of the rule as CecilOne pointed out. The position may also allow more rotation of the hips during the pitching motion which may increase the velocity of the pitch.

Making it difficult to see the ball and attempting to increase the velocity of the pitch are now rationales for calling illegal pitches?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

intended to prevent invisible sight angles.

What is an invisible sight angle? It isn't like there is a rule forbidding the pitcher from hiding the ball. Rule dictates the pitch come from a certain area, so it isn't like the batter can be surprised by the location of the ball when released.

IMO, it is intended to make sure the pitcher's body is facing the batter. And even then, what difference does it make, the batter knows from where the pitch is coming. With all the restrictions on how the ball must be delivered, why would anyone ever care about the alignment of the shoulders prior to that point?

I'm still all for moving back to 46' and let them do anything they want as long as they start with 2 feet on the PP and the rotation begin prior to the push off of that plate