Shoestring catch

[jmkupka]

More anecdote than question...

R1 on 1B, no out.
Liner to shallow right-center, F8 charging, catches it at ankle-level.
R1, off with the hit, is doubled-off by 60ft (standing on 2b, not sure if the call was "catch")
Obviously (to me, not the 1B coach) bad baserunning, bad base coaching, whatever. Coach was pissed we didn't verbally make the catch call.
Mechanics-wise, I simply opened up a little from B-position, PU never saw my back, we both had an obvious (albeit shoestring) catch.
And the play was in front of the baserunner.

Question:
Again, bad baserunning, but are we (in this case, PU) responsible to clearly communicate to baserunner the status of a grey-area ball (i.e. verbally)?
AFAIC, my verbal catch (or "touch") calls are for the benefit of my partner to time a tag-up.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

are we (in this case, PU) responsible to clearly communicate to baserunner the status of a grey-area ball (i.e. verbally)?

Yes.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

more anecdote than question...

R1 on 1b, no out.
Liner to shallow right-center, f8 charging, catches it at ankle-level.
R1, off with the hit, is doubled-off by 60ft (standing on 2b, not sure if the call was "catch")
obviously (to me, not the 1b coach) bad baserunning, bad base coaching, whatever. Coach was pissed we didn't verbally make the catch call.
Mechanics-wise, i simply opened up a little from b-position, pu never saw my back, we both had an obvious (albeit shoestring) catch.
And the play was in front of the baserunner.

Question:
Again, bad baserunning, but are we (in this case, pu) responsible to clearly communicate to baserunner the status of a grey-area ball (i.e. Verbally)?
Afaic, my verbal catch (or "touch") calls are for the benefit of my partner to time a tag-up.

out!

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Mechanics-wise, I simply opened up a little from B-position, PU never saw my back, we both had an obvious (albeit shoestring) catch.

Where does this mechanic come from? NCAA? I don't believe it's a FED or ASA mechanic, but I could be wrong.

And I'm a little confused by both of you having a catch. Does that mean you both gave a visual signal? Or did you simply agree it was a catch in some between-inning meet or post-game discussion? In ASA and FED, if I've got the plate and I don't see my partner busting inside on this, I'm not making any call initially because I'm assuming he's got it.

I agree with the others. It's especially imperative on a trouble ball like this for the umpire to make an emphatic verbal and visual call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Where does this mechanic come from? NCAA? I don't believe it's a FED or ASA mechanic, but I could be wrong.

And I'm a little confused by both of you having a catch. Does that mean you both gave a visual signal? Or did you simply agree it was a catch in some between-inning meet or post-game discussion? In ASA and FED, if I've got the plate and I don't see my partner busting inside on this, I'm not making any call initially because I'm assuming he's got it.

I agree with the others. It's especially imperative on a trouble ball like this for the umpire to make an emphatic verbal and visual call.

Your default on this play should be the other way around... unless your partner calls you off (I'm going!), it's your call.

But in either case --- whoever's call it is should call the out when they see an out. Loudly if close like in the OP or if touch matters on a tag - quietly if it's a can of corn. (Note ... is there EVER a time that we have an out on a close play and don't call it verbally?)

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Your default on this play should be the other way around... unless your partner calls you off (I'm going!), it's your call

I agree. But when my partner doesn't come in from B like he's supposed to under the mechanics I mentioned (FED and ASA), then how the heck am I supposed to know whether or not he's taking the play but just forgot to verbalize? The last thing we need is for me to call "OUT!" while he's giving a Safe signal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I agree. But when my partner doesn't come in from B like he's supposed to under the mechanics I mentioned (FED and ASA), then how the heck am I supposed to know whether or not he's taking the play but just forgot to verbalize? The last thing we need is for me to call "OUT!" while he's giving a Safe signal.

I see your point... but I'd say that's the 2nd to last thing you need. No call at all is worse. Perhaps only marginally...

That said ... if partner failed to bust it in on this play, my assumption would not be that he's going out, but rather that he felt he could not yet bust in without getting in the way of the runner, who is currently in between the bases and may have to hustle right back toward first base.

The NORM here is for it to be PU's call. Absent positive confirmation from partner, it's still PU's call.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I agree. But when my partner doesn't come in from B like he's supposed to under the mechanics I mentioned (FED and ASA), then how the heck am I supposed to know whether or not he's taking the play but just forgot to verbalize? The last thing we need is for me to call "OUT!" while he's giving a Safe signal.

I've worked with that guy too many times.