LL world series

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

PA high school uses four umpires for the games leading up to and including the state championship.

I take it you didn't watch the World Cup of Softball

Naah, I didn't. Was it worth watching?

Do they ever use four-man for the NCAAs? I thought there were only three-man crews for the WCWS.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Naah, I didn't. Was it worth watching?

Do they ever use four-man for the NCAAs? I thought there were only three-man crews for the WCWS.

You are correct about the NCAA, except some crews were not 3 men; some even had women (and no, I'm not being politically correct, I'm being correct).

However, the World Cup of softball, which featured teams representing countries, used a four umpire crew for each game. To my knowledge, the ISF is the only governing body that publishes a four umpire manual. It is these guide lines that I used to create the materials for the PIAA's four umpire mechanics.

[BuggBob]

I’ll admit that I am not a LL rules expert, but I found it extremely frustrating that the PU called an illegal pitch for some unknown violation against the AZ team while nearly every pitch from PR had multiple ball/glove touches, one time the girl stepped onto the plate with the hands together, separated with the ball in the hand, brought her hands together, separated, together, start pitch at the top of her windup touched again. That has got to be illegal.

Also what about a step backwards? It that allowed, like in NFHS; or not, like in ASA?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

I’ll admit that I am not a LL rules expert, but I found it extremely frustrating that the PU called an illegal pitch for some unknown violation against the AZ team while nearly every pitch from PR had multiple ball/glove touches, one time the girl stepped onto the plate with the hands together, separated with the ball in the hand, brought her hands together, separated, together, start pitch at the top of her windup touched again. That has got to be illegal.

Also what about a step backwards? It that allowed, like in NFHS; or not, like in ASA?

Didn't watch the game so I can't address your IP comments. But LL does allow the backward step like NFHS.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

I’ll admit that I am not a LL rules expert, but I found it extremely frustrating that the PU called an illegal pitch for some unknown violation against the AZ team while nearly every pitch from PR had multiple ball/glove touches, one time the girl stepped onto the plate with the hands together, separated with the ball in the hand, brought her hands together, separated, together, start pitch at the top of her windup touched again. That has got to be illegal.

Also what about a step backwards? It that allowed, like in NFHS; or not, like in ASA?

The one pitcher for Virginia was illegal on virtually every pitch, constantly bringing hands together multiple times. There were a few instances where I actually saw her pitching the ball into her glove while standing on the pitching plate. But, the girl that pitched for AZ in the championship game was also illegal on virtually every pitch. She was stepping on and had her hands coming together while stepping on, sometimes they were even together before she was on.

I have no idea what the one IP he called on the AZ girl was for. Looked fine to me except she lost her balance a little and kind of shuffled her feet on the pitching plate.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The one pitcher for Virginia was illegal on virtually every pitch, constantly bringing hands together multiple times. There were a few instances where I actually saw her pitching the ball into her glove while standing on the pitching plate. But, the girl that pitched for AZ in the championship game was also illegal on virtually every pitch. She was stepping on and had her hands coming together while stepping on, sometimes they were even together before she was on.

I have no idea what the one IP he called on the AZ girl was for. Looked fine to me except she lost her balance a little and kind of shuffled her feet on the pitching plate.

One of my frustrations with softball around here is that I am THE ONLY ONE who calls illegal pitches in the lower levels of ball (Little League). I'm trying to get others trained to do so. But it means conquering the attitude that "we just want it over the plate. who cares how it gets there".

These girls then move on to freshman or JV ball where the new guys work who also don't know what an illegal pitch is yet or how to call it. No one calls it till they get to varsity and, quite honestly, a precious few do so. So most of the coaches don't bother correcting form at all, choosing to let the pitchers pitch anyway they want until they get to an umpire who will call it.

I'm getting better at calling the illegal pitches but it's no fun doing it because the pitchers have their illegal motion ingrained and keep repeating the illegal action. Last year, varsity pitcher kept stepping back after her hands came together. Coach didn't understand what I was calling.

In baseball, at least the coaches have some idea what a balk is and will correct their pitchers, or put in a new one till they can work the problem out. Softball, they only have the one, maybe two, pitchers.

Vent over.

Rita

[SWFLguy]

Re: illegal pitches.
I agree. Maybe it's time for the rules folks/powers that be to take a long look at pitching and do a study of which actions really put batters at a disadvantage and which do not. I find it a bit of a stretch in many instances where some of those actions deemed illegal really make a difference. I could be wrong, but it has become such an issue it might call for consideration.

[CecilOne]

My favorite, the league my kids played in and now where 2 grandkids are playing, is Newark National Little League in Delaware.
Also where I coached and started umpiring; currently one of my sons is doing the same.

They play tonight at 8:00, ESPN2.


sorry, ESPN not 2.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Re: illegal pitches.
I agree. Maybe it's time for the rules folks/powers that be to take a long look at pitching and do a study of which actions really put batters at a disadvantage and which do not. I find it a bit of a stretch in many instances where some of those actions deemed illegal really make a difference. I could be wrong, but it has become such an issue it might call for consideration.

Yes, some of the pitching rules probably need to be looked at, but the bigger problem is the umpires who pick and choose what they call. Or, the ones who call nothing and then we that do get yelled at because little Suzie has never been called in her life even though her drag foot is 2' off the ground. Not calling the rules as they are written, especially when the girls are younger is a real disservice to them. Sooner or later they are going to run into an umpire that is calling per the rule book and they wont be able to fix it, and usually it happens at nationals.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Yes, some of the pitching rules probably need to be looked at, but the bigger problem is the umpires who pick and choose what they call. Or, the ones who call nothing and then we that do get yelled at because little Suzie has never been called in her life even though her drag foot is 2' off the ground. Not calling the rules as they are written, especially when the girls are younger is a real disservice to them. Sooner or later they are going to run into an umpire that is calling per the rule book and they wont be able to fix it, and usually it happens at nationals.

Or in a state HS tournament final.

A girl, essentially, pitched sidearm the entire season. Nobody called anything all season. They get to state. Nobody calls IPs during the state semifinal game. They are blatantly obvious, even to this guy who doesn't work softball anymore.

Umpires are told to call it during the final. They call about 13 against the girl and the team gets hammered. Complete disaster. I felt for everyone, including the umpires told to crack the whip in a state final game (who did as they were told).

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

But, the girl that pitched for AZ in the championship game was also illegal on virtually every pitch. She was stepping on and had her hands coming together while stepping on, sometimes they were even together before she was on.

From the LL Softball Rule Book under 8.01:

(d) The pitcher shall take a position with his/her pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate. This contact must be on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot foot must be on or behind the pitcher’s plate.

(e) While on the pitching plate, the pitcher shall take the signal or appear to be taking a signal with the hands separated. The ball must remain in either the glove or pitching hand.

I may be wrong, but as I read that, LL softball rules do not require the pitcher to have the hands separated when she first steps on the pitcher's plate. She just has to have them separated when she gets settled and looks in for the signal.

[RKBUmp]

Regardless of if they do not require them to be separated while stepping on, she was violating the taking a signal with the hands separated.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

From the LL Softball Rule Book under 8.01:

(d) The pitcher shall take a position with his/her pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate. This contact must be on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot foot must be on or behind the pitcher’s plate.

(e) While on the pitching plate, the pitcher shall take the signal or appear to be taking a signal with the hands separated. The ball must remain in either the glove or pitching hand.

I may be wrong, but as I read that, LL softball rules do not require the pitcher to have the hands separated when she first steps on the pitcher's plate. She just has to have them separated when she gets settled and looks in for the signal.

If the pitch starts when her hands separate, and her hands are together when she steps on the plate, how can she take signs with the hands separated without violating the requirement to pitch with a continuous motion?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

If the pitch starts when her hands separate, and her hands are together when she steps on the plate, how can she take signs with the hands separated without violating the requirement to pitch with a continuous motion?

I don't umpire LL Softball, Hugo, so I don't know for sure. But again, as I read it, there is no stated requirement in 8.01(d), as there is in the other rule sets (e.g., NFHS 6-1-1a), that the pitcher has to have her hands separated when she first contacts the plate.

She could, for example, have them together as she looks down to get on the plate, separates her hands, and then looks up to start taking the sign.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't umpire LL Softball, Hugo, so I don't know for sure. But again, as I read it, there is no stated requirement in 8.01(d), as there is in the other rule sets (e.g., NFHS 6-1-1a), that the pitcher has to have her hands separated when she first contacts the plate.

She could, for example, have them together as she looks down to get on the plate, separates her hands, and then looks up to start taking the sign.

Then she has failed to pitch with a continuous motion.