Does the run score?

[dommigirl]

We play slow pitch softball under ASA rules. Here's my situation:

One out, man on first and third. Batter hits line drive to Short stop, man on first took off for 2nd, saw the ball caught, turns back for 1st. Short stop throws to first for the force out. 3rd base runner went home.
the ump let the run score, stating that he crossed before the out. our view is that is was a force out so the run shouldn't count.

what do you say?

thanks
Shelli

[Welpe]

Hi Shelli-

That is not a force out, it is an appeal play. An appeal can be made by stepping on the base before the runner returns, which is why it looks like a force out. The umpire was correct in allowing the run to score since the runner crossed the plate before the out was made.

[MD Longhorn]

Correct call.

[Manny A]

Shelli, just to add, it's a pretty common misconception that the play you describe is considered a force play because, as Welpe points out, the out can be recorded by stepping on the base before the runner returns.

But in every baseball and softball rule set that I'm aware of, the definition of Force entails a runner being required to advance to the next base because the batter becomes a batter-runner. Once the batter turned batter-runner is retired (as in your case where the shortstop caught the line drive), all force plays on runners go away.

[MNBlue]

Did the runner at 3B legally tag up before advancing to home?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Did the runner at 3B legally tag up before advancing to home?

Doesn't matter, really, given what was described.

Would only matter if they bothered appealing at 3rd, which obviously they did not.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Doesn't matter, really, given what was described.

Would only matter if they bothered appealing at 3rd, which obviously they did not.

That is where I was going. If R1 didn't tag up they had a possible 4th out appeal to wipe out the run.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

That is where I was going. If R1 didn't tag up they had a possible 4th out appeal to wipe out the run.

This was dommi's first post - she's not an umpire, she's a player or fan and she's talking about a situation that actually happened. If there was an appeal, she'd have said so.

Just kind of seemed strange that one would ask her --- did something you did not mention happen? Because if it did, then the team could have done something else that you also didn't mention, which would change things entirely.

Might as well have asked --- did the batter bat out of order? Because if they did, you could have gotten an out by appealing it. Or - did the runner going home miss touching the plate? Cause if they did, you could have appealed that.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

This was dommi's first post - she's not an umpire, she's a player or fan and she's talking about a situation that actually happened. If there was an appeal, she'd have said so.

Just kind of seemed strange that one would ask her --- did something you did not mention happen? Because if it did, then the team could have done something else that you also didn't mention, which would change things entirely.

Might as well have asked --- did the batter bat out of order? Because if they did, you could have gotten an out by appealing it. Or - did the runner going home miss touching the plate? Cause if they did, you could have appealed that.

Mr. Helper - YouTube

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Did the runner at 3B legally tag up before advancing to home?

Originally Posted by MNBlue

That is where I was going. If R1 didn't tag up they had a possible 4th out appeal to wipe out the run.

Don't cloud the issue. Work with the information given. Follow the old "KISS" rule. The answer to the OP has already been given, which is the umpire made the correct call based on the info provided. Leave it at that.