Lessons Learned from 18U Gold (Long Post)

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, don't know why any of these are even considered an issue. There is nothing there that shouldn't have been known and familiar before being assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA.
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This stuff is the standard that has been included in schools and clinics for more than a decade. If it is a shock to you, that means you even haven't gone to the clinics or your clinicians are not presenting you with what is expected.

Guilty as charged. I haven't been to an ASA school or clinic (other than routine pre-season training with my association). The vast majority of what I know is through OJT from previous ASA Nationals, Showcases, and other tournaments. And with the exception of maybe two or three games a year, I work two-man in those games.

And as others have pondered, I did start out as a baseball-only umpire, and worked baseball for about 12 years, before moving over to softball. To this day, I still bring those nasty baseball habits onto the skinned moundless field with me (like tracking pitches only with my eyes, not signalling foul on the ball back to the screen, etc.)

So maybe I wasn't cut out to be "assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA." But I can tell you that there wasn't a single umpire from what I saw or heard during post-game critiques of other crews who didn't screw a couple of these things up. Perhaps it's because they all had extensive NCAA experience, or maybe they, like me, had a baseball background. Or maybe they were just human.

Whatever the case, I was not alone in either forgetting, or just being totally unfamiliar with, the "ASA way" that was expected of us in this National. And I posted my observations to help others here who may be in the same boat.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Guilty as charged. I haven't been to an ASA school or clinic (other than routine pre-season training with my association). The vast majority of what I know is through OJT from previous ASA Nationals, Showcases, and other tournaments. And with the exception of maybe two or three games a year, I work two-man in those games.

And as others have pondered, I did start out as a baseball-only umpire, and worked baseball for about 12 years, before moving over to softball. To this day, I still bring those nasty baseball habits onto the skinned moundless field with me (like tracking pitches only with my eyes, not signalling foul on the ball back to the screen, etc.)

So maybe I wasn't cut out to be "assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA." But I can tell you that there wasn't a single umpire from what I saw or heard during post-game critiques of other crews who didn't screw a couple of these things up. Perhaps it's because they all had extensive NCAA experience, or maybe they, like me, had a baseball background. Or maybe they were just human.

Whatever the case, I was not alone in either forgetting, or just being totally unfamiliar with, the "ASA way" that was expected of us in this National. And I posted my observations to help others here who may be in the same boat.

Manny, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't have been there, though without a national school, IMO, you shouldn't have, but more on a procedural standpoint.

And part of my reason is just what you stated here. These things are common mechanics for ASA. Would you not agree that to reach the top level of ASA FP, the umpire should have the advantage of this knowledge beforehand? If you were a coach, would that not be your expectation of the officiating crew? I can understand umpires just moving into the world of NC play not being 100% up to snuff on some things as different areas and instructors do occasionally insert personal, non-official mechanics, but that should not be an issue at the Gold.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

And when they're needed, they're given. On a clear foul ball back to the screen or a ball clearly out of play, nobody needs an umpire and the signal is superfluous. The base umpire might say, "it's foul" to an advancing runner, but even that's not a requirement.

I don't disagree, but the standard is that the umpire calls the game, not just portions of it. Personally, the "foul" call has always been one of reaction and I'd rather have an umpire make a superfluous call than waste time on getting the field reset because someone didn't think it was that obvious.

On a ball that barely misses a runner, a safe signal clearly tells everyone that "I saw the ball and it didn't hit the runner." It's a signal that communicates something useful.

So if there is no signal, the umpire is inferring "I wasn't watching"? If the umpire saw it, s/he would have called it. Talk about superfluous.

Like I said, different strokes. Doesn't make your way better or my way better, but those guys that work both sports had better know the ways of each unless they want to get marked down. Sitting next to an evaluator, for example, I saw the pen come out when a plate guy said "dead ball" on a HBP in a baseball game last week. Absolutely wrong in baseball, but proper in softball.

Why is that wrong? Baseball rules (MLB 5.09) clearly state that "the ball becomes dead" when the batter is HBP.

Unlike softball, though, I can work essentially the same mechanics in every one of my baseball games. Apparently there's a heackuva schism in softball between the different bodies.

The base was developed by the ASA. NFHS & ISF have the same mechanics as ASA. NCAA has different mechanics, but that is a closed shop and even then that have been some issues among crews, just as there is elsewhere.

In ASA, NFHS & ISF, if the umpires are using the book mechanics, I can walk onto the field with any of those umpires without a pregame and not have a problem. It is the interjection of personal preferences that will cause a crew issues. Don't get me wrong, I've had my issues and arguments with the ASA staff about some of their mechanics, but when working their games, I will do my best to use their mechanics.

When I worked baseball, many of the mechanics were the same except BU starting inside. Then again, if you didn't go to a professional school, your training was mostly local.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Manny, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't have been there, though without a national school, IMO, you shouldn't have, but more on a procedural standpoint.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I know I would have benefited from attending (and I will in the near future). And if it had been a hard-fast prerequisite, I would have made the arrangements beforehand. Suffice it to say that, given other demands in both my work and personal calendars, I didn't have the wherewithal to attend one this year. So I did what I thought was prudent, attending local training with my association UIC, researching materials on ASA's website, and asking questions on this board.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And part of my reason is just what you stated here. These things are common mechanics for ASA. Would you not agree that to reach the top level of ASA FP, the umpire should have the advantage of this knowledge beforehand? If you were a coach, would that not be your expectation of the officiating crew? I can understand umpires just moving into the world of NC play not being 100% up to snuff on some things as different areas and instructors do occasionally insert personal, non-official mechanics, but that should not be an issue at the Gold.

I agree with this as well. And for the most part, I felt all umpires at this Gold were well up to speed for the most part. It was just what I consider a few technicalities that were highlighted by the evaluators that caught me--and perhaps a few others--unaware. I made sure to exercise them the next time I took the field, and offered them here for others to benefit.

As for the coaches, I honestly don't believe any of them knew any better, but I could be wrong. Hell, I had one head coach question whether an opposing pitcher had just committed a Balk, for crying out loud.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Let me preface--I am both a baseball and softball umpire. I went to ASA National School back when I worked that level of ball.

I gave up ASA many years ago for numerous reasons. Too many games in a day when working tournaments, all the nitpicking of umpires by higherups, crummy pay per game...I could keep going on.

I currently work NCAA softball at the Division 2 and 3 levels. I work in an association that has proticals. However, nitpicking is not one of them.

Do I always throw my arms up on a foul ball straight back--no.

Do I sometimes use an unauthorized signal--sure

Do I hustle and work hard on the field and do I know the rules--absolutely

The bottom line is we need to get the plays right. I love mechanics that assist umpires in this goal. I am not a big believer in mechanics for the sake of mechanics. I worked my state's state high school softball tournament this spring and the UIC suggested we don't signal outs on routine fly balls. He said nobody is looking at the umpire anyway.

I liked that one. It made sense to me.

I'm sure if some ASA guy watched me work he would cringe with some of the things I do. Frankly, I have a hard enough time remembering rule differences, when in three consecutive days I work high school baseball, college softball and high school softball. Some of the book mechanics don't even hit my brain.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

As for the coaches, I honestly don't believe any of them knew any better, but I could be wrong. Hell, I had one head coach question whether an opposing pitcher had just committed a Balk, for crying out loud.

I didn't say know better, I said expect the officials at the top tournament to be trained and aware of the rules and mechanics beforehand. If I were a coach and someone tells me to give the umpire a break, he is just learning the system at a NC, I would go ballistic. A national at any level or of any organization is not a place to train umpires.

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re

The bottom line is we need to get the plays right. I love mechanics that assist umpires in this goal. I am not a big believer in mechanics for the sake of mechanics. I worked my state's state high school softball tournament this spring and the UIC suggested we don't signal outs on routine fly balls. He said nobody is looking at the umpire anyway.

I liked that one. It made sense to me.

The observation is not wrong, but an umpire makes the signal because it is part of the routine and job. It is good practice and eliminates a question of mechanics when the lines of what is or is not routine or necessary begin to get blurred.

[shagpal]

Different philosophies.

In ASA, you will get "always do this, or never do that".

In NCAA, you will be asked "why did you do this, or what were you thinking when you did that".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Different philosophies.

In ASA, you will get "always do this, or never do that".

In NCAA, you will be asked "why did you do this, or what were you thinking when you did that".

Actually, our tournament UICs accepted reasonable explanations to any deviations of the norm. They did ask during critiques questions like, "Why did you make the call from there?" They wanted to make sure the umpire knew what was expected, and wanted to understand the umpire's rationale for doing something different.

[shagpal]

OK, that is good to hear.

But then, what is up with BU "never" making a call from foul (your #6)?

Originally Posted by Manny A

Actually, our tournament UICs accepted reasonable explanations to any deviations of the norm. They did ask during critiques questions like, "Why did you make the call from there?" They wanted to make sure the umpire knew what was expected, and wanted to understand the umpire's rationale for doing something different.

[CecilOne]

I am surprised at:
a) first half of #3
b) #6 if it is absolute
c) #7 especially
d) #8 - yuk (sorry Mike)

[IRISHMAFIA]

I am surprised at:
a) first half of #3
3. Signaling all foul balls, even obvious ones, is expected. However, there is no verbal required on those obvious ones.

This is standard ASA as the routine. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it that much as the UIC unless it became the standard for all foul balls

b) #6 if it is absolute
6. U1 and U3 are not to go into foul territory to make calls at their bases. For example, no runners and the batter hits a sharp grounder to F9. F9 throws to first to play on the BR. U1 either button-hooks in to take the call (preferred option), or takes a step into fair territory to make it.

Again, nothing new, but it doesn't say NEVER. It should be the exception when necessary to stay out of the play, not as a standard reaction to anything between the line and F4 and/or F9.

c) #7 especially
7. Foul pop-ups between home plate and the BU positions are not to be bracketed. For example, batter pops up a foul toward the first base dugout that both F2 and F3 move to make the play. U1 is NOT supposed to move toward the fence to help the PU watch the play.

Don't know why other than to avoid a double call

d) #8 - yuk (sorry Mike)
8. When the ball is back in the circle after play ends, the umpire at the plate (PU normally, or U1 if the crew performed a full rotation) shall always call Time so that the crew can quickly get into their positions for the next pitch. Do not waste time by moving individually into position while partners watch runners.

This isn't new and was noted in a clarification a couple years ago. And whether you are pro or con on LBR, when all the umpires are rotated, it is an intelligent and efficient mechanic to get the game moving. There is no harm in calling time to get the crew reset.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't know why other than to avoid a double call.

One of the other reasons given was to prevent having two umpires away from the diamond, leaving one to deal with potential tag-ups or plays on runners being too far off the base.

For example, R1 on third and R2 on first, and there's a popped up bunt on a squeeze attempt that goes toward the third base dugout. BU and U3 both go toward the fence as F2 and F5 converge on the ball. F2 makes a diving catch, and then from her knees throws to F6 covering third base as R1 attempts to return. Might be a tough call for U1 to make from the opposite side of the diamond.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

One of the other reasons given was to prevent having two umpires away from the diamond, leaving one to deal with potential tag-ups or plays on runners being too far off the base.

For example, R1 on third and R2 on first, and there's a popped up bunt on a squeeze attempt that goes toward the third base dugout. BU and U3 both go toward the fence as F2 and F5 converge on the ball. F2 makes a diving catch, and then from her knees throws to F6 covering third base as R1 attempts to return. Might be a tough call for U1 to make from the opposite side of the diamond.

Understand that, though if there is a runner on 3rd and the ball is away from the plate area and there is an umpire on the line, the PU may want to give up that call if there is a possibility of a tag. Then again, it all depends on the area you have to cover in foul territory. Rarely is the minimum of 25' available to the defense, at least, in my travels.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Manny A

One of the other reasons given was to prevent having two umpires away from the diamond, leaving one to deal with potential tag-ups or plays on runners being too far off the base.

For example, R1 on third and R2 on first, and there's a popped up bunt on a squeeze attempt that goes toward the third base dugout. BU and U3 both go toward the fence as F2 and F5 converge on the ball. F2 makes a diving catch, and then from her knees throws to F6 covering third base as R1 attempts to return. Might be a tough call for U1 to make from the opposite side of the diamond.

Shouldn't we be using good judgement on this? If F2 makes a diving catch or the ball is into the fence, PU may not be in position to make a credible call. U3 will likely still have a good angle on R1 returning. I can certainly agree with U3 not being too aggressive with a runner responsibility. Also, for example, with two out, foul/catch is the only call.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, it wasn't stated to us in absolute, so I apologize if that's what it sounded like. There are always a couple of exceptions where a call from foul ground would have to happen. They just emphasized that foul territory should not be the first option, such as on a throw to first from right field.

Thanks for the clarification.

When I was at the GOLD in 2011, we were told at our pre-tournament clinic that it was allowable to go into foul territory to make a call if needed, one of the examples given was a pickoff play at third.

This was a departure from the ASA norm at the time, and did raise some questions from long-time ASA umpires. I was surprised when reading the OP on this one.

As far as umpires at the GOLD knowing the expectations, I was told that three of the 40 umpires at my tournament in 2011 had never worked a three-umpire game in their life. If that is the case, that needs to fall back on the local UIC that recommended these umpires for the tournament.