[ASA] Tiebreakers and Defensive Conferences

[Crabby_Bob]

Perhaps intentionally, the tiebreaker rule (5.11) and defensive conferences rule (5.7.B) are written independently of each other.

Scenario: JO ball and time has expired. In the sixth inning, the first tiebreaker, the defense takes their second defensive conference of the game. By rule, it would appear they could take another defensive conference in the sixth without penalty of having their pitcher removed or save the conference for a possible seventh inning. In all extra innings (the eighth and beyond) the defense gets one conference per inning.

Comments?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Perhaps intentionally, the tiebreaker rule (5.11) and defensive conferences rule (5.7.B) are written independently of each other.

Scenario: JO ball and time has expired. In the sixth inning, the first tiebreaker, the defense takes their second defensive conference of the game. By rule, it would appear they could take another defensive conference in the sixth without penalty of having their pitcher removed or save the conference for a possible seventh inning. In all extra innings (the eighth and beyond) the defense gets one conference per inning.

Comments?

I would say the literal interpretation applies (they could take another defensive conference in the sixth without penalty of having their pitcher removed); and the one per inning limit applies only if the tournament rules specify it.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I would say the literal interpretation applies (they could take another defensive conference in the sixth without penalty of having their pitcher removed); and the one per inning limit applies only if the tournament rules specify it.

I would agree. An extra inning is after the schedule distance, so that would be the only time the extra inning rule should apply. If the event invitation/rule state that extra innings are innings played after the time limit, then the extra inning rule should apply, since the game went into extra innings once the time limit innning expired.

[Andy]

Wow...I was going to post this same situation after my tournament this weekend.

Time expires in the sixth inning, inning is finished, tie game. We start the tiebreaker in the 7th inning. Each coach takes a defensive conference in their half of the seventh inning. I informed each of them that it was their one charged conference for the inning, no objections.

Same reasoning as Chapmaja indicated...time has expired, we are in "tiebreaker" innings...these are extra innings to complete the game.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Andy

...time has expired, we are in "tiebreaker" innings...these are extra innings to complete the game.

However, that is not how 5-7-b (ASA) is written. You get 3 per 7 innings, and then one per inning after 7. No special provision is written for tie breaker.

[MD Longhorn]

What Big said. The rule doesn't say you get 3 per GAME, and then extras in the extra innings. It says you get 3 during a seven inning game, and then one per inning after that. There's no carry-over.

[RKBUmp]

If you are going to go by the strict wording of the rule, then the tie breaker should also not start until the 8th inning. 5-11-A

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If you are going to go by the strict wording of the rule, then the tie breaker should also not start until the 8th inning. 5-11-A

Unless the tourn rule says so, even if it does not change the def conf limit.

[AtlUmpSteve]

It has always been the understanding in any tournament which I have been involved with that also had a time limit that the intent of the rule of was 3 allowed conferences in any "regulation" game. That (regulation) could be any number of innings up to 7, with time limit being just one factor that could cause the game to be less than 7 innings. And, time limit is the only one of those reasons that could cause this to be unclear.

It is common to indicate (or understand) that the tiebreaker rule is in effect in the first inning after regulation; whether caused by time limit and tied, or end of 7 innings and tied. That said, the rulebook didn't contemplate time linits when the conference rule was written, so it does clearly state after 7 innings, not end of a tied regulation game.

Someone should suggest a rule change, as the vast majority of the world seems to understand it as "regulation".

[IRISHMAFIA]

There is no correlation between the tie breaker rule and extra innings.

Rule 5 is quite clear that a regulation game is 7 inning unless the home team is leading at the end of the top half of that inning.

It is also quite clear that DC are three in the 7 inning game.

The rule book seems quite clear. Now, since the rule changed negating the charged conference if the pitcher was changed, how many times have you, the umpire, told a coach the pitcher had to be changed, by rule?

DC in softball are not used as they are in baseball. In baseball, it is to talk to the battery and determine their status. I believe in softball, it is more of a team conversation on strategy than worry about the pitcher.

And then you have the argument that the coach who blows all his conferences in the first 3 innings gains a strategic (though that of the mind) advantage by getting more conferences that would not have been available had the game not run long.

[Andy]

I went ahead and kicked this up the food chain yesterday by sending it to my Regional UIC.

I got a phone call back from him and he told me after consulting with our Territory UIC that once the time limit has expired and you are playing additional innings due to a tie ball game that the one defensive conference per inning would go into effect, no matter what the actual inning of the ball game was.

I was told that the question was being forwarded to KR as well.

I'm hoping that it will be included in the next plays and clarifications.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

I went ahead and kicked this up the food chain yesterday by sending it to my Regional UIC.

I got a phone call back from him and he told me after consulting with our Territory UIC that once the time limit has expired and you are playing additional innings due to a tie ball game that the one defensive conference per inning would go into effect, no matter what the actual inning of the ball game was.

I was told that the question was being forwarded to KR as well.

I'm hoping that it will be included in the next plays and clarifications.

Organizational uncertainty - Should we apply that interp. in all Terr/Regions or wait for KR?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Should we apply that interp. in all Terr/Regions or wait for KR?

Yes, definitely.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Organizational uncertainty - Should we apply that interp. in all Terr/Regions or wait for KR?

Prudence would say wait.





(Of course, I don't know Prudence that well, so you are are on your own as to whether or not you are going to listen to her.)

[UmpireErnie]

I think this is an editorial issue...I'm guessing that 5-7-b was written before time limits were ever written into championship play rules. Seems to me for years there was no mention of time limits in the rules but only in ASA code.

The fact that we begin using the tie breaker in the top of any inning after time has expired seems to indicate that regulation innings are over and we are now in an extra inning so each team now gets one DC per inning regardless of how many DCs they used prior to going into extras.

But it does say "seven innings" doesn't it?