rule cite

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

How would this situation play out with the IFR rule that is being discussed?

R1 on 2b, R2 on 1b. 0 out. R1 and R2 are stealing on the pitch and B3 hits a pop fly on the infield. The plate umpire invokes the IFR and F3 lets the ball drop, which rolls and hits B3 in fair territory. In this case B3 is out on the IFR. Even though R1 and R2 had advanced and had attained the next base when B3 was contacted by the ball, would R1 and R2 be sent back to 2b and 1b? The interference rule would allow them to stay at the base attained at the time of the interference which would be the ones they were stealing on the play 3b and 2b.

According to the rule, it is just a dead ball. Runners stay where they were when the ball became dead.

I don't see the need for the additional portion of the rule, but apparently something happened on the field in 2000 or 2001 which precipitated it.

AFAIC, this shouldn't be any different from any other non-participant being hit with a batted ball. Of course, you may always have an issue of the BR not hearing the call or an umpire not making the call in a timely fashion

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Of course, you may always have an issue of the BR not hearing the call or an umpire not making the call in a timely fashion

Yeah, a ball that hits the BR would not give the ump much time to make a call.

OK, now, the reason I started looking for this, timing of the out.

Pardon me if you think I am overthinking or TW'ing.

Without any dead ball out of the BR as above, is the player who hit the IF out:
1 - when the ball is struck, even though the rule is in the BR section
2 - when the IFR is declared (verbal)
3 - when the ball lands or is touched
4 - during the post-game

I have always thought it's number 1, as there is no escape from the out, but now I think I recall a ruling somewhere that says number 3, which might mean the things like:
a - runner struck dead ball overrides
b - the force is on until the ball hits the ground if untouched
c - who knows

ASA first, please.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yeah, a ball that hits the BR would not give the ump much time to make a call.

OK, now, the reason I started looking for this, timing of the out.

Pardon me if you think I am overthinking or TW'ing.

Without any dead ball out of the BR as above, is the player who hit the IF out:
1 - when the ball is struck, even though the rule is in the BR section
2 - when the IFR is declared (verbal)
3 - when the ball lands or is touched
4 - during the post-game

I have always thought it's number 1, as there is no escape from the out, but now I think I recall a ruling somewhere that says number 3, which might mean the things like:
a - runner struck dead ball overrides
b - the force is on until the ball hits the ground if untouched
c - who knows

ASA first, please.

I would say it is #3. The reason is on balls close to the line we are instructed to call "Infield fly if fair." If the ball lands untouched and rolls into foul territory and is then touched or lands foul it is simply a foul ball it is simply a foul ball. The ball doesn't become fair until it is touched over fair territory, touches the the ground over fair territory, or touches the ground in fair territory beyond first or third base.

[Andy]

Pardon me if you think I am overthinking or TW'ing.

You are, but that's OK.....

The IF rule goes into effect when the status (fair/foul) of the ball is determined. Since there cannot be an infield fly on a foul ball, the effect of the rule does not become "official" until the ball is determined to be a fair ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yeah, a ball that hits the BR would not give the ump much time to make a call.

OK, now, the reason I started looking for this, timing of the out.

Pardon me if you think I am overthinking or TW'ing.

Without any dead ball out of the BR as above, is the player who hit the IF out:
1 - when the ball is struck, even though the rule is in the BR section
2 - when the IFR is declared (verbal)
3 - when the ball lands or is touched
4 - during the post-game

I have always thought it's number 1, as there is no escape from the out, but now I think I recall a ruling somewhere that says number 3, which might mean the things like:
a - runner struck dead ball overrides
b - the force is on until the ball hits the ground if untouched
c - who knows

ASA first, please.

How about....

The IF is what it is the moment the umpire deems it so. The effect of the rule is when it is determined to be fair, so I would say you have 1 & 3, it is never "overridden" by anything, striking a runner subsequent action and there is never a force.

BTW, striking the ball is what places it in the BR section since that action is what make the B a BR

[CecilOne]

How about a runner is struck by the batted ball before it lands?